Origin LP Discussion Thread

[DarkFlare89]

Origin

***I AM REAL***

***I AM NOT REAL***

Released on: November 4th 2000
Released by: BigWig Enterprises
Released amount: 2500 copies

Tracklist:

0. Anywhere (Hidden Outtake) - (0:26)
1. Origin - (0:35)
2. Whisper - (3:56)
3. Imaginary - (3:32)
4. My Immortal - (4:26)
5. Where Will You Go? - (3:47)
6. Field Of Innocence - (5:13)
7. Even In Death - (4:09)
8. Anywhere (& Where Will You Go - Reprise) - (6:03)
9. Lies - (3:50)
10. Away From Me- (3:30)
11. Eternal (& Demise) - (7:22)

---Outtakes and Extras---
1. Catherine - (?:??)
2. Listen To The Rain - (3:14)
3. Spanish - (?:??)
4. Whisper (Automata) - (4:31)

Listen to the ENTIRE LP:

Some Things To Think About/Debate Over

-Despite what the internet and YouTube say, no version of Haunted was ever included on, nor thought to be on, the Origin CD. Early discographies seemed to denote the 2001 - 2002 Demo of Haunted (v1) as being on Origin. This is perhaps do to some confusion at the BMTL (French) forums over Haunted (v3) which had the song "Origin" as its intro, before flowing into the opening beeps of Haunted (v1).

This verison of Haunted is from the Origin Album. It doesn't sound that much of a difference from the Fallen album.

-Origin (Haunted)

-Since this info has been posted on EvBoard, I can finally edit this topic. For more info, see Double A's Origin Information Page topic. In any case, there were TWO shipments of Origin: One done on October 2000 and the other on January 2001. On October 2000, 1000 Origins were shipped with the LOT number N1222M. On January 2001, 1,500 were shipped with the LOT number X0A21C. This is why most Ev fans who purchased Origin thought (at first) that ALL Origins had the X0A21C number attached to them - after all, these were the Origins that were primarily sold through BigWig's website before it closed. However, BOTH numbers denote a legal Origin, so long as you also have the two IFPI numbers as well:

All of you really suck... ORIGIN is a scarce piece available to collectors only, believe me. Perhaps you can find one or two real ones through eBay for few hundred bucks.

The 19 tracks album is a Russian release registered under E.U. policy, a complicated way to legalise some merchandising which otherwise would be considered a punishable activity.

There are tons of threads, posts and warnings concerning this stuff in evboard.com ... once again... DO NOT BUY 'rareties' through eBay, 70% are fakes, 20% illegal, 5% burned stuff. PM if you've got some reasonable doubts to any of us and we'll give you an idea of what to do.

-Ever wonder what the Latin stuff is on the cover of Origin? Wonder no more; it's from the Bible, Romans 6:4 -

The words in grey which you can barely read on the inlay of the Origin album say this:

"Consepulti enim sumus cum illo per baptismum in mortem ut quomodo surrexit Christus a mortuis per gloriam Patris ita et nos in novitate vitae ambulemus."

Translated: "For we are buried together with him by baptism into death: that, as Christ is risen from the dead by the glory of the Father, so we also may walk in newness of life."

It's from the Holy Bible, Romans chapter 6.

(Also, the words in grey on the back cover of Origin are the lyrics of My Immortal).

-Renee and Michelle talking about Origin and The Open Door. Notice how she also mentions ("the ones that did not make it") meaning more than one Outtake from Origin. Does she have Catherine and Spanish? As another side comment, it would be interesting to hear those two songs "the band" wrote that Amy didn't like her vocals in. They would have had to have been somewhat finished by that stage, right (two complete demos perhaps?):

Hey guy's. I will be honest and tell you that I have not listened to Origin a lot. I was there when Ben and Amy were writing and recording it but I didn't really pay that much attention. I have all of the songs from Origin and the ones that did not make it but we really don't listen to it. Both of my kids like the new album more than Fallen. There is ALOT of choir. I don't remember hearing a lot of guitar solos but I didn't pay that close attention. "The Band" wrote 2 songs and Amy didn't like her recorded vocals so she didn't use them for the album. Also Rocky and John had wrote @ 6 or 7 songs and she didn't accept them either.

-Some tips in figuring out how to spot an authentic Origin or not:

1. If the seller is selling more than 1 copy.
2. If the seller has a by it now price under $50 US.
3. If the exact same picture has been used in auctions before.
4. If there is no black circle near the center of the disc
5. If the seller gives little info on the disc.
This seller use a photo of his/her actual fake copy. BIG MISTAKE. There is no black ring in the center and if you look closely and you have a good monitor you can tell that the cd booklet is inkjet printed.

Info on cd ring:

Almost no home cd labeler can make the inside ring of a disc without having it joined to the outer art. Proffesional CD pressings (factory CDs/not CD Rs) use a sort of ink that they print right onto the cd. This made a ring in the center of the disc. if you see this ring on an "evanescence ep" or a "sound asleep ep" its a fake. if you do not see this ring on an "origin" it is a fake.
if you see the image below than it is a fake. this image has been shown over 50 times and even though it is a picture of the original (the ring) it will not be the cd you get.

the price is coming down on the fakes and the real ones because people don't wanna play top dollar for somethat could turn out a fake.
I'm almost 100% sure that there is one genuine original on ebay. I would show it to you but i've already bid and i don't wanna get outbid.

1. There is no ring
2. When evanescence were an indie band you wouldn't have been too confident that they would make it as big as they did. no one would buy 2 copies of origin and keep them both in mint condision. Tip: A sign that your buying a real origin is to look if it sais used. if it sais used you chances of it being real are bigger.

There's a hidden track at the beginning of the CD. If you rewind the first track 'Origin' farther than the 0:00 mark it will keep going into a hidden track which contains an outtake from Anywhere.

Also there should be no transparent area on the actual CD. The entire CD should be a black and white 'Evanescence Origin' design, with no bare see-through area, like all official CDs.

The original Origin CD only has 11 tracks and not 20 or 24 or however many tracks the fake ones have.

Hope this has helped!

I'm sorry but this criteria doesn't authenticate a real origin. There have been a few widespread pressings which include all of what you've said. I contacted Big Wig Enterprises a while ago and the only sure way to tell if it is real is checking if it has an IFPI number. I know for a fact that currently all origins on ebay are fakes so don't even bother trying there.

-There is at least two live sets that correspond to this era, both of which we DO NOT have: November 2000 Origin Release Party live set and 2001 TNT Arkansas live set. Note in the following that "Whisper" seems to have been the lead single out of Origin, and the one played on the radio (one of the five pre-Fallen songs):

The signing comes on the heels of the November 4, 2000 release of the bands debut cd, Origin, on Bigwig Enterprises to strong critical notices and impressive independent sales. The release was heralded by massive airplay on KLEC "Lick" 106.3 FM where the lead single "Whisper" was the #1 requested new single for more than two weeks, bringing attention from labels and radio stations nationwide. Approximately 1,000 fans attended the cd release party and lined up to be the first to own the album. The band has also released two limited edition EPs which each sold through their entire run in under an hour. Evanescence has also appeared on three compilation projects.

This CD was released at a show featuring Evanescence, Living Sacrifice, Squad 5-0 and two bands that really sucked on November 4, 2000 at the Little Rock River Market Pavillion. It was really cold, but worth it to finally get a non-CDR release from the band, not to mention posters! Now if only their new shirts that night hadn't been red. I'm not buying a red t-shirt.

-David Hodges joined the band in 2000 and worked on this CD with Ben and Amy:

----------QUESTIONS ABOUT EVANESCENCE----------
How did you meet Ben and Amy and subsequently enter into the band?
i met ben through a mutual friend the summer of 98. he and i became close friends and he helped record earlier solo projects of mine. a year and a half later, i was getting tired of the music i was doing and ben asked me to join he and amy to write and see what happens. we started writing and recording "origin" in dec. 99 and everything worked so well that we continued from there.

SOURCE

-Rocky Gray created the album art/cover for Origin.

-Origin became out of print a (month?) before BMTL (Fallen) appeared on the Daredevil Soundtrack. The following message went up on BigWig's website:

Evanescence's debut cd Origin is now out of print. If you have placed an order and received a receipt from Paypal, or if you have made arrangements with us for mail order, your purchase is secure and you will receive it shortly.

-Origin was recorded with a "recorder" in Ben's closet. This is probably why Amy doesn't like this album, because it was made so unofficially. Amy doesn't consider this a real CD; instead this was a dolled-up CD that they used to shop around for labels. Nevertheless, some fans still say this is their "first CD":

But be sure that Origin was recorded at Amy's and Ben's Home. She said it in a interview (MuchMusic Canada 2003). She said that Origin is a cr*p because it was recorded with a "recorder" (I speak spanish, I dont know how to explain it) of 300 dollars and in Ben's home and in the attic of her house.

-Amy Lee on Origin:

See, this is the thing, we don't consider Origin a real CD. It's really funny. We made it look like a CD and we were really only using it as a demo to show to record labels. That was before we had a record deal. Then we were like, "Well, if we're doing all these songs . . ." These were all recorded in our apartment. We put them on the CD and made them look like a CD and now people think it's the 'early works of Evanescence.' I was so mad about that, I'm really so much more proud of our newer stuff. I mean, it's stuff that's good, but it's nothing like our new stuff. We've really grown as a band and even some of the songs on Origin are the same songs on Fallen, but were just done right, now that we have the money to or the backing from the label.

SOURCE

-Around 2004, fans began circulating an online petition to get Origin re-released. Wind-Up, because they don't like money, promptly ignored this [/sarcasm.] (Because let's be real here, if Wind-Up wanted to, they could easily release this. If Transmission can re-release After Forever's first two CDs (even without their permission), Wind-Up can do some behind-the-scenes nudging to get Origin re-released as well. And yes, BigWig is defunct, therefore they own the copyright to nothing).

To: Evanescence/Windup Records

To WindUp Records and/or Evanescence,

This petition and all of the undersigned express the want and/or need of the re-release of Evanescence's 2000 CD release "Origin." As fans and supporters of the band, we would like the original cd, with all original tracks, cover art, so on and so forth, to be re-released. It would allow those who are morally opposed to downloading music, those who do not have the internet connection to download music, or those who simply do not have the time to sit at the computer to be able to have and listen to Origin tracks. It would also stop certain people from selling old Origin CD's for $400+ on the internet. The addition of a 2nd cd containing unreleased material (including songs such as October, Farther Away, and Solitude, but excluding the song: "You") would also be appreciated, but is not necessary.

Thank you.

Sincerely,
The Undersigned

This (to me) always seemed like a sure-fire money maker for Wind-Up. New fans, (and more importantly) old fans would buy this - it would be win/win 100% for Wind-Up.

Origin Reviews

-From Josh Spencer at Stranger Things Magazine:

Finally, this much anticipated debut has left the factory. For the past couple of years, music fanatics have had their appetities whetted for this amazing band through a very small run EP release, a song on a compilation or two, and some mp3s. The release of their full-length seemed about as tantalizingly near-but-not-yet as the second coming of Christ.

Now that it's here (in limited numbers, so get your copy soon), does it deliver? Pretty much, yeah, if you fancy a fusion of Garbage electro-goth chick vibes, Chatterbox/Circle of Dust melodic industrial-metal, epic transcendence ala The Gathering, and plenty of piano prog like, maybe, '80s Yes or ELP (but don't quote me on that). In fact, most of the song structures have the fluid classical feel of being written on the piano, then translated through guitars and electronics. Amy Lee is of course the main attraction, her soaring, sad voice accented by ethereal "oohhhhs" and soft whispery overdubs. In the vast space around her, there's usually a lot going on, with layers of keyboards, samples, drum loops, effects, and electric guitars all flowing together into one glowing gothic industro-metal glacier.

Two tracks from the ultra-rare EP reappear, retooled -- "Imaginary" and "Where Will You Go?". The other eight songs range from the solitary, sorrowful piano ballad "My Immortal" to the phenomenal progressive metal song "Lies" where Amy sings cascading scales, Living Sacrifice's Bruce Fitzhugh provides an injection of low end as guest bassist, and male death vocals even pop up.

Really, the only fault on the whole album might be the clean male vocals that come in on "Where Will You Go" and "Anywhere". At best, they're distracting; at worst, they're just plain cheesy ("yeeah, yeaaahhh"...!??) for this kind of music. Thankfully, the mistake is confined to those two tracks.

The lyrics are all first person, either confessional or directed toward others, touching on fears that linger and hold the speaker back, disillusionment with life, love lost and desired, and finally, a hopeful reaching to accept freedom through one with "an open embrace upon a bleeding tree." There's definitely a change in mood at the end, with the songs upping the tempo and energy to match the hope in the lyrics. If there's any justice in this world (which we know there isn't when it comes to music), Evanescence will find a host of appreciative fans and be maturing their music for years to come.

-From Todd Brown at True Tunes Magazine:

On the strength of a pair of compilation appearances, an ultra limited run EP release and an increasingly strong live show the debut record from Evanescence has become one of the most hyped and anticipated releases of recent years. Demand for Origin, which has been delayed more than once, has been running high for over a year but the band’s mastermind Ben Moody refused to be rushed, instead taking his time to build a studio setup capable of capturing the potential of the music he had in his head. Word is Moody turned down a repeated offer to join Living Sacrifice to continue working with Evanescence and his persistence has paid off large. Origin is a stunning record, sweeping in scope and power and absolutely pristine sonically. That the band could produce something this textured, subtle, and gripping on a negligible budget is a testament to Moody’s enormous innate skills as a producer, Amy Lee’s gripping vocals and the band’s gift for balancing aggression and beauty within their powerful, layered arrangements.

The gothic pop overtones, synth programming and female vocals will undoubtedly draw comparisons to Garbage, but where Garbage tends to veer into dance oriented territory, Evanescence draws from a much broader musical palette seemingly equally comfortable drawing in elements of thrash guitar, deep ambience and classical guitar oriented ballads. Powerful, aggressive, deeply melodic, inventive and incredibly radio friendly, Evanescence have accomplished that incredibly difficult task of crafting a sound that is both completely their own and immediately familiar and gripping. It will be absolutely shocking if this record isn’t snatched up by a major label within six months of its release. It’s that good. Origin releases in November, get it first.

-From Richard Maaranen at Ballistic Test Magazine:

I had heard bits and pieces of how good Evanescence was from people who were fortunate to experience them live or hear their rare demo. I was however not prepared for the real thing which far exceeded my expectations. This is a magnificient album! Imagine, epic gothic metal with gorgeous, lush female vocals that soar into the heavens and descend into delicate serenades. This is all supported by electronic orchestration, industrial elements (e.g. Whisper) and even melodic piano ballads (e.g. My Immortal). Saviour Machine with a female singer would be a reasonable comparison but this is on a whole new level. There are heavy electric guitars found throughout the album but there are also some instances where they are not used and the focus is on the piano and/or vocals instead. The recording quality is another highlight, crisp and clear on all the instrumentation and little details such as haunting choral and ambient synth parts. Last but not least, the spiritual and heartfelt lyrics greatly enhance the listening experience. "Anywhere" for example is a beautiful love song filled with the hope that comes from above.

All in all, a gorgeous masterpiece! Buy it for yourself and buy it as a gift for your significant other.

-From Nate at Decapolis Magazine:

I don't traditionally listen to a lot of music within this genre (not that I have anything against it), but I really enjoyed this album. The metal head in me is satisfied and the softer side that also enjoys Enya and Sarah McLachlan can cry along to the soothing feminine vocals. You have your tough songs like "Whisper" and you have your piano bound ballads like "My Immortal." There are also different sounds spliced here and there in the musical make-up such as acoustic guitar and the aforementioned piano. Several guest musicians are also along for the ride, notably Bruce Fitzhugh of Living Sacrifice fame. Somewhere out there is a movie that needs this album as a soundtrack.
Grade: B+

THANKS to AcervusMusic for the videos!

[wolfie]

I just checked - mine is legit. (I don't really care much, but someone else payed for it and I'd feel terrible if he spent a lot of money to get me a gift and it turned out to be fake.)

[Lycrymosa]

I bought a real one off ebay earlier this year for $300 after sifting through many fakes and doing extensive research. It's definately real he had bought it off the big wig website not long before they were pulled down.

I have high resolution scans if anyone wants to see them ;D

[PJ.]

I had started this thread over in Evboard and decided to start it again now because new questions and answers are coming up. Here is the original thread..

8/7/12
Ok. So I found out recently that the copy of Origin I own is not one of the 2500 first made. Pretty bummed, but what can you do? I mean I only spent $17 on it anyways. Hopefully i can find one of them soon. HOWEVER. I am starting to ask...could it be one of the copies ex BigWig employees reprinted after Origin was out of print? Everything about this copy is totally legit. The hidden tracks, the album art, everything. And trust me I have gone through my share of bootlegs and this one can't compare. It even has a IFPI number and a BWE number. The only thing is the BWE number is "CRT BWE0002 N1222M" and it should be "BWE0002 X0A21C". I am thinking that the copy I own is still authentic...but it is just the reprinted copy after the 2500. EvRef does say that a graphic artist who worked for BigWig claims they did reprint copies of Origin. The only thing about that is the fact that these copies have Brownish hues, and have the code "BWE0002 X0A21C" just no IFPI number. So...why does mine have no brownish hue and a completely different BWE number? Has anyone ever tried contacting BigWig and asked them any questions about Origin? If so let me know how I can contact them...because I am going to try my best to prove that these copies are in fact real copies...just have different codes and different times of production. I am also going to try and contact the person who wrote that on EvRef...and also i'm going to ask the seller I bought this CD from and see where he got it(which i bought this over a year and a half ago...so tracking down the seller may be hard too)...if he remembers. This may be difficult but i am prepared do do this. If anyone wants to help me...please do!! <3 Here are scans of my Origin if you haven't already seen them.

[ask me for them]

Just contacted the seller I originally purchased it on eBay from...wasn't too hard to find out who it was...I only bought it like a year ago...August 11th 2011 to be exact. lol. The seller I purchased from said that her husband bought the CD right after Evanescence broke out and became popular...so im guessing after Fallen. The CDs were discontinued shortly after that right? She also said that the website he bought it off of was connected to the band. Im hoping that she can tell me the website....and hopefully it was conntected to BigWig. Because if that's the case maybe what we have thought could be true!

11/11/12
Now, a signed copy of Origin has hit eBay and looks pretty authentic doesn't it?

cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=321021082612&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:US:1123

I asked the seller what the BWE code was and when exactly she got it and if she has any receipts for it from BigWig. She replied saying the code was CRT BWE0002 N1222M, and quote

I got it directly from the Bigwig site before they sold out of them. I got it in 2003 so I wouldn't keep the receipt.

She could be lying but it kinda matches up with where my CD came from and where this one came from. What do you guys think?

[AeternusAmatorius]

While your theory is a strong one, I have some criticisms.

First, the graphics that have the brownish hue, are indeed, reprinted. Though just because other copies do not have a brownish hue, BUT the codes do not match that of a source straight from BigWig, does not mean it is indeed authentic.

Second, "Origin" was taken down from BigWig's site a few days before the release of the Daredevil sound track. So that was around February 2003.

Third, because of my second point, any seller claiming they purchased it from someone affiliated with the band, AFTER they made it big is a red flag.

Forth, the "N1222..." Coded discs are not authentic copies because it does not have the ORIGINAL code AND they are not being distributed by BigWig since BigWig does not exist anymore.

Fifth, because of the fact that it's getting easier to bootleg, and because bootleggers can get CD reader now, and program their own codes, I would not believe the "N122..." Coded discs are authentic. I would believe they are bootlegs.

Sixth, because of the fact that EvRef has posted the HQ scans, it's easier now to make something look THAT much more authentic when it is not.

[PJ.]

^All i'm saying is that what if BigWig produced another set of Origins after the original press of 2500 once EV made it big? They probably sold out of the first editions and then made another pressing using another BWE number (N122..) It would make alot of sense. I'm sure it was illegal and that is why we will prob never know the truth anyways. I mean there are so many bootlegs out there so how is this one perfect besides the fact that it has a different BWE number? It has all the hidden tracks the CD artwork is spot on...and if it was purchased back then it couldn't have been that good. Plus why wouldn't the bootlegers just use the same BWE code...why use a new one? and I mean all the other bootlegs I have come across over the years had no BWE code. It doesn't add up.

[DeMarzi]

I just want to throw this out there, but bootleggers are becoming really good these days and many of them even have the hidden track. It wouldn't be very hard to use HQ images from the EvRef for the artwork, either.

[PJ.]

Nov 13, 2012 0:35:22 GMT -5 DeMarzi said:

I just want to throw this out there, but bootleggers are becoming really good these days and many of them even have the hidden track. It wouldn't be very hard to use HQ images from the EvRef for the artwork, either.

I guess, but i mean I bought it from a seller that said they bought it right after Fallen was released. And I mean my disc does have a BWE code on there....just not the one that matches the original, and I mean if the bootleggers put a BWE code why not match the original one you know?

[DarkFlare89]

PJ, if it is okay with you, can the MODS merge this topic into my Origin LP Discussion Thread?

The reason I ask is because the Origin thread has a (albeit, small) part about finding a real Origin (a bit outdated, I'm afraid, since this was pre-smart!bootlegers), and I figure it would be better for posters to find all their info/debates on Origin in one place rather than having two topics about it.

MODS, it is possible to merge topics on these forums, right? I don't want this one closed, I just want to incorporate it (ala merge the posts) into the Origin LP Discussion Thread. If it isn't possible, then by all means keep this one open. I just figured keeping everything in one place would make everyone happy. But like I said, PJ it would be with your permission, since I'd feel bad if you didn't want it to happen, so . . . yeah

As a comment for this topic though, I seem to recall some type of program that users back on the FOI forums used to see whether or not their Origin was made with HQ rips or the original .WAV files (don't quote me on that though, it has been a while xD). The CD tester measured the wavelength (or something) of the tracks on the CD to determine whether or not it was authentic? Or something? I dunno, there must be someway to figure this out, right? Do we know what CRT means in front of PJ's BWE number?

*Yes, topics can be merged very easily. Once PJ responds I can merge them immediately.

[AeternusAmatorius]

DarkFlare, I remember what you're talking about. I think that's how it went. Lol.

[RapturedLight]

^I want to see scans!

[Deleted]

Aw I wish that petition had been successful.. Wind-up would probably make plenty of money off it. I wonder why they didn't re-release it?

[ladylollydragon (Kazlan)]

There's something about this CD... I think it could be partly due to the synth voice they use in parts of the songs, but there's this underlying sound and feel that I absolutely love.

[jessicawhatsername]

This is good to know about the differences between fakes, reprinted and the original Origin

[AeternusAmatorius]

Jan 23, 2013 1:14:59 GMT -5 ladylollydragon (Kazlan) said:

There's something about this CD... I think it could be partly due to the synth voice they use in parts of the songs, but there's this underlying sound and feel that I absolutely love.

What synth vocals are you referring to? The one's in AFM?