2001 - 2002 Demo Discussion Thread

[DarkFlare89]

2001 - 2002 Demos

NOTE: THIS IS NOT A REAL CD! DON'T BE A FOOL!

Tracklist:

1. Whisper (Post-Origin Demo) - (5:13)
2. Everybody's Fool (v2) - (3:02)
3. Anything For You - (3:25)
4. Farther Away - (3:53)
5. Imaginary (v1) - (3:19)
6. Tourniquet (v2) - (3:49)
7. Taking Over Me (v1) - (3:19)
8. Haunted (v2) - (3:23)
9. Before The Dawn - (3:17)
10. Bleed - (4:18)
11. Hello - (3:34)
12. Taking Over Me (v2) - (3:41)
13. Missing - (3:26)
14. Surrender - (3:35)
15. Bring Me To Life (v2) - (4:06)
16. Breathe No More - (3:51)
17. Bring Me To Life (v1) - (3:58)
18. Everybody's Fool (v1) - (2:41)
19. Haunted (v4) - (3:16)
20. Imaginary (v2) - (3:28)
21. Lies (Post-Origin Demo) - (3:06)
22. My Last Breath - (3:37)
23. Tourniquet (v1) - (3:38)
24. Going Under - (4:03)
25. Haunted (v3) - (3:50)
26. Tourniquet (v3) - (3:45)
27. Haunted (v1) - (3:16)
28. Forever You - (3:23)

Listen to MOST of the songs:
Listen to Fallen in DEMO form:

Some Things To Think About/Debate Over

-If your wondering where I got this list, I adapted the list from the Not For Your Ears bootleg (sans Origin's Even In Death (with it's modifications ala Rough Mix from bootleggers; sans SA EP's Forgive Me; sans Ev EP Outtake's the "Forbidden Song"). I then added the "CD ALT Tracks" from EvReferenceMusic (i.e. the so-called 2002 Demos). Then I added the "Misc. Tracks" from the same website and then added what was left. Notice that Haunted (Radio Edit) corresponds to Haunted (v4) and Forever You isn't on the list (see "Haunted" and "Forever You.")

-Some info put on early discographies describing the 2001 - 2002 Demos:

These titles were released on a series of cd-r compilations and mp3s given to record label executives, radio stations, family, friends, and fans. Titles are listed alphabetically. Where the same title was recorded more than once, the discography attempts to list the older recording first. Only new recordings are listed. Songs from ORIGIN or older demos are not listed, unless they were re-recorded during this period.

-How these songs got released is interesting, since apparently the Not For Your Ears bootleg is a (derivative from? an exact copy of?) the Songs To Be Recorded For Fallen (CD-R) that Amy/Ben (sent? made?) for Wind-Up. According to the EvReference:

The story went that Brad Caviness from bigwig had taken the songs from the studio and created these discs to sell online. This is not true. The tracks not on Songs To Be Recorded For Fallen were stolen . . . somehow, but it is mostly unclear how it happened.

SOURCE

A CD-R of pre-fallen demo songs created for Wind-up Records' purposes. It contains demos of all Fallen tracks as well as Breathe No More, Farther Away and Missing. It comes in a PVC sleeve with the track list printed on a paper insert (similar to a modern press kit disc). Noteworthy because it is how most of Fallen's demos became publicly available. It is extraordinarily rare as probably 20 were made and most of those were likely destroyed.

SOURCE

If it is the case that poor Brad wasn't the one who released them, then who did? In the *ORIGINAL* quote about "the "Forbidden Song," posted by Jasmine in (a LiveJournal? I wish I saved the link. I was EvLurking in the 2003 archives *shifty eyes*) on 05/18/03, Ben specifically mentions Brad (notice how that quote has changed compared to the one we have)

if the "official ben quote" is what'll satisfy you guys, here it is..

"He even has gone to a studio that we recorded at (the owner of which was a friend of his) and made cd's of songs he was never supposed to have. One song in particular, was a VERY private thing between amy and myself. He was FORBIDDEN to show it to anyone, since there was no way I could actually be sure I had every copy. COUNTLESS times people have commented on that song and how Brad showed it to them. When confronted, he just denies it or says that they heard it on accident or some bullshit. there's a very good chance some of you have it on your computer RIGHT NOW." - Ben Moody

not only did brad distribute CDs with this song on them, he also left the song in his shared folder overnight.. exposing it to you.

im not trying to raise any sort of argument. and yea, its art, people want it. but if you have a heart, please follow their wishes. if you dont want to delete it, at least dont share it. thanks

Notice also how this EvBoard topic (circa 2004) about "The Dolphins Cry" ala the 2001 TNT Live Set also describes Brad as the one who released it:

i was in that first one a coupla years ago that brad the theif started back before evboard existed. it's actually how i found out about evboard. gabe came in and said he'd put a message board on exodus. and that's how the leopard got its stripes.

he posted a lot of mp3s really early on for us before many people had them. even some he really really shouldn't have...

SOURCE

So if (since 2004) we (as the EvCommunity) have exonerated Brad from his crimes, why haven't we named a new culprit? Why is it now *no. one. knows?* That puts the releasing of the demos by Brad under EvLore , until someone can prove it otherwise. The demos were released, and then the bootlegers took the ones they liked/wanted (since they selected VERY PARTICULAR ONES from the list - notice there is no My Last Breath on NFYE or Imaginary v2. Why TWO Taking Over Me's?!?) and then added one from Origin (EID, which they then tweaked into the Rough Mix) one from SA EP (FM) and one from the Ev EP era (the "Forbidden Song").

There is a problem with this, however. DoubleA and myself talked about this on ev.it v3.5 and we decided that it would be quite hard for Brad to release the Fallen Demos, since he wasn't at the studio where they were recording them (although, Brad *would* still have access to the "Forbidden Song" since it would be an Ev EP Outtake and not a 2001 - 2002 Demo):

BigWig was in Memphis, Tennessee (where Brad moved Ben and Amy to work on I think Origin). At least this is what I gather from watching After Midnight.

In 2001 the Amy and Ben were signed to Wind-Up. In an interview (I think it was the IMX 2003 interview) Amy said they were in pre-production (or maybe it was artist development or whatever) for almost 2 years writing and recording songs and demos. They were in New York because in that interview, Amy talked about not having anything to do (and applying for the waitress job) but there was the beach and the gas to get down there was too much because they didn't really have any money. Lol. So it would only make logical sense that Brad did not have access to most, if any, of the Fallen demos.

-There are a lot of misspellings, (working titles?) and alternative titles for these demos. Most will be commented on in their respective topics (like "Wake Me Up Inside" or "Monsters").

At the time of the releasing (and before the Fallen LP getting released), the label (Post-Origin Demo) was applied to three songs: Whisper, Imaginary, and Lies. Imaginary lost it's label when the v2 came out (hence TWO Post-Origin Demos, hence that can't work - this occured circa mid to late 2003); Whisper lost it's label soon after, when people started realizing that Whisper had a Fallen Version (hence two VERSIONS of Whisper that are Post-Origin, hence that can't work - see below for commentary). Since Lies was NOT remade again for Fallen, the Post-Origin Demo label stuck for that song, despite the debacle with calling it a "Remix." The last update to include these terms occured on 06/12/03.

3:18 Imaginary (post-origin demo)
3:06 Lies (post-origin demo)
5:12 Whisper (post-origin demo)

SOURCE

Notice at this time Haunted (v4), mistaken for Haunted (v1), was being called Haunted (Radio Edit). Once v4 disappeared in plain sight (see "Haunted") the Radio Edit label was attributed to (v2) and paired as a contrast with v1. Haunted (v3) was released but was not spread (limited to the BMTL Fourms in 2005) until its wider release circa late 2006 due to EvReference. v4 followed suit once people (i.e. me) figured out that Haunted (Radio Edit) on the EvMediaWh0ringPage was different then Haunted (v1).

-Going Under was the last song to be finished for the Fallen LP (and demoed?) and, despite heavy resistance from the elitest people in the EvCommunity (see "Going Under") who claimed certain nonsense, the demo was spread on EvBoard in July of 2006. This was the last major demo to be widely released to the EvCommunity; preceded by AOTS (Original) in October of 2005 (FOI v3) and Tourniquet (v3) in November of 2005 (FMB v1); followed by Haunted (v4) in February of 2007 (FMB v1) and Haunted (v3)/Whisper (Post-SA) in December of 2007 (EvRef). In any case, due to GU's late finding, it is often absent from older discographies of the 2001 - 2002 demos. You can tell how old a discography is by seeing what they label: Bleed as I Must Be Dreaming; Monsters/Wake Me Up Inside as Imaginary/Bring Me To Life; The Post-Origin Demos; Lies as a "Remix"; No Going Under; No Imaginary v2; No My Last Breath; No Tourniquet v3/Haunted v3 or v4 and so forth.

-*Certain* demos are labeled specifically as 2002 Demos. Usually Whisper gets called Whisper 2002; the demos on Not For Your Ears bootleg were called the 2002 Demos on older discographies. This practice has largely stopped because it made no sense. People were looking foolish because they would list EID, FM, and You as 2002 Demos, when clearly that is not the case. What proof, by the way, do we have that Whisper was made specifically in 2002? I mean, yeah we could PROBABLY say Going Under was made in 2002, since it was the last one and everything, but what do we have for Whisper that it is the ONLY demo I have seen to actually, colloquially be called Whisper 2002? Why not My Last Breath 2002? Or Imaginary 2002? We don't even HAVE a second demo of Whisper, so why call it anything at all? I'd understand if, like there was a Bring Me To Life 2001 and, to differentiate it, the EvCommunity would call the other one Bring Me To Life 2002, but that doesn't happen. So what's up with Whisper? DoubleA, what do you think? Which were 2001 and which were 2002? Do you think the Making of Fallen would help with this? *analyzing*

-The listing of the demos (i.e. v1, v2) is arbitrary, and is based only on WHEN we found them. Obviously Haunted (v2) is the youngest of the demos, since v1, v3, and v4 ALL have the "Calling Me/Killing Me" part in them and v2 has the part that we hear on Fallen. Tourniquet (v1) is the youngest of the demos because it is on the Fallen Promo (same with TOM v2 and Haunted v2 - with these + Hello (Demo) does that mean that these three are assured to be made in 2002? What about Imaginary v2?). In other words, whenever the EvCommunity finds a new 2001 - 2002 demo, it adds a number: so the older BMTL demo that goes "Wake Me From Dreaming/Save Me From Nothing/Bring Me To Life" that's on the Rumor Mill, that will be called BMTL (v3) even though it is OBVIOUSLY older than the rest. Re-numbering the demos based on perceived age would fundamentally change people's err . . . (understanding? thoughts? lists?) of the demos (imagine if someone was talking about a demo and you are talking about a different demo all due to the fac that someone is reffering to the old number and you are reffering to the new one!)

THANKS to SleepForeverMCR & EuSou - L for the videos!

[Ring]

So I have 2 questions:

1) What is the "Fallen Promo" and what was it used for?

2) You said in the FOI forum that Tourniquet v2 is in the Fallen Promo but in this thread you say that Tourniquet v1 is in it. So I'm assuming Tourniquet v1 is the correct one?

[AeternusAmatorius]

Mar 18, 2013 12:31:50 GMT -6 Ring said:

So I have 2 questions:

1) What is the "Fallen Promo" and what was it used for?

2) You said in the FOI forum that Tourniquet v2 is in the Fallen Promo but in this thread you say that Tourniquet v1 is in it. So I'm assuming Tourniquet v1 is the correct one?

There are many Promo's for Fallen. They were normally used for radio stations for promotion before the album was released. 

Fallen Promo Versions


Though the one that I think DarkFlare89 is referring to is probably the most known 9 track Publicity Promo that had some demos and some mastered versions of the song, which I cannot seem to find on any collectors site... 

[Deleted]

So those demo songs are likely to be performed during their artist development under Wind Up records. According to Ben, those songs are private and simply confidential because it is recorded for Wind Up record's purposes. But how those confidential songs from 2001 - 2002 demo became publicly available? Are the songs from demo leaked? How and why?

[Ring]

Mar 21, 2013 19:38:27 GMT -6 AeternusAmatorius said:

Mar 18, 2013 12:31:50 GMT -6 Ring said:

So I have 2 questions:

1) What is the "Fallen Promo" and what was it used for?

2) You said in the FOI forum that Tourniquet v2 is in the Fallen Promo but in this thread you say that Tourniquet v1 is in it. So I'm assuming Tourniquet v1 is the correct one?

There are many Promo's for Fallen. They were normally used for radio stations for promotion before the album was released. 

Fallen Promo Versions


Though the one that I think DarkFlare89 is referring to is probably the most known 9 track Publicity Promo that had some demos and some mastered versions of the song, which I cannot seem to find on any collectors site... 

Thanks for the answer, this is the 9 track Publicity Promo tracklisting, right?

1. Bring Me To Life
2. Everybody's Fool
3. My Immortal
4. Tourniquet (Demo v1/v2)
5. Imaginary
6. Hello
7. My Last Breath
8. Taking Over Me (Demo v2)
9. Haunted (Demo v2)

I'd still like an answer for the second question, by the way.

[DarkFlare89]

Mar 22, 2013 0:40:33 GMT -6 @theriseandthefall said:

So those demo songs are likely to be performed during their artist development under Wind Up records. According to Ben, those songs are private and simply confidential because it is recorded for Wind Up record's purposes. But how those confidential songs from 2001 - 2002 demo became publicly available? Are the songs from demo leaked? How and why?

Hiya! Yes, that is one of the main points of debate in this topic - how exactly did the demos get leaked/released and by who? 2003 - 2004, people blamed Brad from BigWig. However, DoubleA brought up some counterpoints to that argument (also quoted in the topic).

I would be very weary, however, in making the claim that ALL the demos are private or confidential. The Forbidden Song, for Ben, sure, was private. The other demos? I'm sure it was slightly embarrassing for Amy (since she is a perfectionist) but I wouldn't say they were absolutely forbidden to listen to. I'm sure it was a not-nice thing to leak them (via internet p2p sharing thing, which happened late 2002 along with the actual Fallen CD + bleeps and whooshes) but it is what it is, you know? Also, according to Ben only TWO songs are private and one is forbidden (Forgive Me was private - quote in Forgive Me Thread; and the Forbidden Song, whose thread I will make once I e-mail the ADMINS/MODS and have free time in the summer

Mar 22, 2013 3:12:21 GMT -6 Ring said:

Mar 21, 2013 19:38:27 GMT -6 AeternusAmatorius said:

There are many Promo's for Fallen. They were normally used for radio stations for promotion before the album was released. 

Fallen Promo Versions


Though the one that I think DarkFlare89 is referring to is probably the most known 9 track Publicity Promo that had some demos and some mastered versions of the song, which I cannot seem to find on any collectors site... 

Thanks for the answer, this is the 9 track Publicity Promo tracklisting, right?

1. Bring Me To Life
2. Everybody's Fool
3. My Immortal
4. Tourniquet (Demo v1/v2)
5. Imaginary
6. Hello
7. My Last Breath
8. Taking Over Me (Demo v2)
9. Haunted (Demo v2)

I'd still like an answer for the second question, by the way.

Okay so back in FOI I never actually *listened* to the Fallen Promo (i.e. the 9 Track Publicity Promo). LOL it's not like it was around to listen to anyways, although I was able to download the Haunted/TOM versions on the Promo and they had a few seconds of extra silence on the end of them (hence, that's the way you can tell if your .mp3 comes from the Promo of just from the p2p downloads of the 2001-2002 Demos). DoubleA gave me a link to a site which had the songs hosted and I listened to them for the first time. Two things I noticed: #1) Tourniquet was NOT v2, it was v1 and #2) The Hello (Demo) was also there.

That being said, I made an assumption that the Tourniquet v1 was the "youngest" of the Tourniquet demos since, according to EvLore, the purpose of the Fallen Promo was for publicity and to get an idea of what Fallen was suppose to sound like. So, if that is the case, we'd have to assume that Haunted/TOM v2 and Tourniquet v1 were the last demos to be worked on (i.e. the last step before their actual Fallen Versions were coming about). Now, that could be a wrong assumption on my part - it always made sense to me for Tourniquet v2 to be on the Fallen Promo, as per what people said, since it sounds more like the Fallen Version compared to v1, but that wasn't what was hosted (DoubleA, do you by any chance have that link again?).

There are, of course, some overall debates with the Fallen Promo as well. Does this pre-date or post-date the Mystary EP? If it is AFTER, then does that mean the Imaginary on the Fallen Promo is the Mystary Edit (whose differences are so minute, I cannot even hear them - DoubleA has more on that, I'll be working on that Mystary EP topic soon), or did Amy/Ben/David work on Imaginary (into the Fallen Version) in time for it to be on this CD? It would also make sense for it to be AFTER, since the Mystary Version of MI is NOT on the Fallen Promo. There is also the question of where is the Going Under demo? Before the demo came out, people claimed there WAS NO demo - the exclusion of it on this promo as proof (Whisper's disappearance notwithstanding). But since we know there was one, why wasn't it on here? Was Going Under (Demo) so late in the development that it couldn't be put on this promo? But that contradicts what we see in the Making of Fallen videos. Why isn't Whisper (Post-Origin Demo)/Whisper 2002 on this either? So yeah . . .

Lots of questions . . .

[Ring]

Mar 22, 2013 13:18:54 GMT -6 DarkFlare89 said:

Lots of questions . . .

Yeah, sorry for that, I'm just very curious

[mydnyghtamethyst]

I love Everybody's Fool V2. Part of me kind of wishes the final cut was more like that.

[AeternusAmatorius]

Mar 22, 2013 13:18:54 GMT -6 DarkFlare89 said:

Lol. I have no idea what the link was. Reading this section, I was thinking to myself "What link was that? I'll need to ask." However, I do have the Publicity Promo on my desktop and my iPod.

[DarkFlare89]

Mar 22, 2013 13:51:47 GMT -6 Ring said:

Mar 22, 2013 13:18:54 GMT -6 DarkFlare89 said:

Lots of questions . . .

Yeah, sorry for that, I'm just very curious

No, it's okay. Ask away - that's the point of these threads I'm happy to help!

Mar 22, 2013 19:06:52 GMT -6 AeternusAmatorius said:

Mar 22, 2013 13:18:54 GMT -6 DarkFlare89 said:

Lol. I have no idea what the link was. Reading this section, I was thinking to myself "What link was that? I'll need to ask." However, I do have the Publicity Promo on my desktop and my iPod.

Ah, excellent! Can you double check to see if Tourniquet v1 and Hello (Demo) are both on the version you have?

[AeternusAmatorius]

^Yeah! I'll check either tomorrow or Sunday as I'm on my way to bed now after working on my presentation on el Chupacabra. XD

[DarkFlare89]

DoubleA, I'm having second thoughts about the idea that the Fallen Promo was released AFTER the Mystary EP (like EvLore says).

Do we, as the EvCommunity, really think they released the Mystary EP on 01-13-03, then the Fallen Promo a month later (Feb 2003) and then released Fallen on 03-04-03? It can't possibly be true that Haunted, TOM, Tourniquet, and Hello were each not ready by the time Feb. rolled around. What stops us from theorizing that Wind-Up released the promo at around the same time the 2001 - 2002 demos were leaked?

We know at least so much about when the demos were leaked:

Late 2002/Early 2003 - The 2001 - 2002 demos were leaked on the internet. This was done is phases, hence why some things were easier to find than others. The first phase I'll call the "Not For Your Ears Phase", (NFYE Phase) since those were the most readily found demos available, to which the bootleggers took and (once Fallen came out on 03-04-03), created the Not For Your Ears bootleg. They tweaked/tampered/screwed-up with Even In Death thus creating the EID (Rough Mix), added Forgive Me, and added the "Forbidden Song," putting a bit of every release (Origin, SA EP, EV EP) on the record for (completion purposes?) as current theory goes. The second phase I'll call the "Alternative Takes Phase", (Alt Phase) since that is what the non-NFYE demos are called on the EvReference. Here is where MLB, Imaginary v2, Lies (Post-Origin) are found. These were most likely leaked later on (early 2003/mid 2003), since that would explain their absence in the early 2003 discographies. Like I said on my main post, by 06/12/03 - there still were many demos missing. This could be either because of bad distribution (via internet - notice how long it took us to get the GU demo/Haunted v3 & v4/AOTS Original), or just people not keeping up/sharing/elitism within the community. The release of NFYE increased their (NFYE demos) availability, soon eclipsing the other demos until late 2003 when fansites would gather and categorize them together. Fast-forward to 2013, and we have FallenEvArmy's wonderful YouTube page to fill that void :.D

12/19/02 - David leaves Evanescence:

12.23.02: Well, bad news for Christmas. David Hodges, as of last Thursday, is no longer a member of Evanescence. I don't know any details yet. You'll get them as soon as possible.

^As per Exodus Evanescence news section.

12/23/02 - Latest date for BMTL to be leaked onto the internet by Wind-Up. The source for this is Gabe's LJ - by this date at the very LATEST we know that people know what BMTL sounds like (i.e. the rap). BMTL would, by Jan., be playing on radio worldwide- despite being officially/commercially released in April 2003 (Fallen being released on March 2003). Even by late Dec. 2002, as per the comments, BMTL was being played in Arkansas on the radio.

SOURCE

01/03/03 - By this date it is CERTAIN that Fallen leaked, since Exodus Evanescence has the quote (below) and an alphabetical tracklisting with lyrics (that are not correct, since they were trying to listen and figure out what the words are). So this CANNOT be the time the Fallen Promo came out since Fallen itself leaked! These leaked songs had significantly bad LQ glitches; Missing's poor state can still be seen (a bit cleaned up) on the 2003 Re-Release Bootleg of Origin (clearly we see the bootleggers are trying ).

If you're really interested, apparently Wind-Up has leaked some rather glitchy versions of these songs onto Kazaa. Obviously you won't want to burn these, but they'll give you a good idea of what the new album will sound like.

01/13/03 - Mystary EP released. Therefore, "good" versions of FA/MI/Imaginary/EF/MLB along with leaked Fallen are out and about in the internet world. Perhaps "good" versions of BMTL that are being played on the radio as well.

02/04/03 - By now, we also know for certain that Give Unto Me /Goodnight/ Listen to the Rain/ Before the Dawn/ October/ Bring Me To Life (Demo)/ Surrender have been leaked, since they were listed on the Discography as well. I don't know which BMTL leaked here - most likely v2 since that is the one on NFYE.

Wayback Machine was my friend for all of this

[AeternusAmatorius]

DarkFlare89: K. So I cannot remember what thread we had talked about the 9 track Publicity Promo, but, Tourniquet on there is V1. Hello is the demo but in higher quality (my TRT for the demo is 3:34 but on the Pub. Promo it is 3:32). Haunted is demo 5 which demo 5 is essentially demo 2 with a few seconds of the end of the guitar solo is cut off, not as much vocal ad lib at the end, and a few seconds cut off at the end and again in higher quality. And Taking Over Me is Demo 2 and the quality between my demo and the Pub. Promo sound the same. I personally do not think this promo is real... :/ 

[DarkFlare89]

Apr 6, 2013 16:04:08 GMT -6 AeternusAmatorius said:

DarkFlare89: K. So I cannot remember what thread we had talked about the 9 track Publicity Promo, but, Tourniquet on there is V1. Hello is the demo but in higher quality (my TRT for the demo is 3:34 but on the Pub. Promo it is 3:32). Haunted is demo 5 which demo 5 is essentially demo 2 with a few seconds of the end of the guitar solo is cut off, not as much vocal ad lib at the end, and a few seconds cut off at the end and again in higher quality. And Taking Over Me is Demo 2 and the quality between my demo and the Pub. Promo sound the same. I personally do not think this promo is real... :/ 

LOL we talked about this in the 2001 - 2002 Demo thread

Yay, I was right about Tourniquet *dance*

Huh, HQ version of Hello (Demo), and Haunted/TOM. Interesting. Indeed, I don't think this Promo makes sense either (as per the timeline I posted in the Demo thread).

[AeternusAmatorius]

Apr 6, 2013 16:08:48 GMT -6 DarkFlare89 said:

Apr 6, 2013 16:04:08 GMT -6 AeternusAmatorius said:

DarkFlare89: K. So I cannot remember what thread we had talked about the 9 track Publicity Promo, but, Tourniquet on there is V1. Hello is the demo but in higher quality (my TRT for the demo is 3:34 but on the Pub. Promo it is 3:32). Haunted is demo 5 which demo 5 is essentially demo 2 with a few seconds of the end of the guitar solo is cut off, not as much vocal ad lib at the end, and a few seconds cut off at the end and again in higher quality. And Taking Over Me is Demo 2 and the quality between my demo and the Pub. Promo sound the same. I personally do not think this promo is real... :/ 

LOL we talked about this in the 2001 - 2002 Demo thread

Yay, I was right about Tourniquet *dance*

Huh, HQ version of Hello (Demo), and Haunted/TOM. Interesting. Indeed, I don't think this Promo makes sense either (as per the timeline I posted in the Demo thread).

Oh! Haha! *insert bangs head emoticon*

Yeah. They're Higher Quality than the demo versions. lol. But the TOMV2 demo and Pub. Promo are of the same quality. At least to my ears. lol.