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Post by RapturedLight on Sept 21, 2016 21:08:47 GMT -5
Ok guys there is something that has been bothering me for quite a few years. I was about to reply to PJ in the topic about Jen's interview but I figured I needed to confront my point of view to see if it was just me who felt that way... Back in 2011, Evanescence toured with The Pretty Reckless and that kind of disturbed me. Taylor was nineteen and she acted very "sexy" and provocative on stage. That didn't put me at ease, even though she was not a minor anymore. But I just didn't understand why Amy would support this when she's so proud of selling her music without showing her body or acting a certain way. On top of that, Taylor was formely an actress (for some teen tv show) and I always assumed this "rock" persona was more of an act than anything else. See, when people feel the need to dress a certain way to correlate their music taste, it just look not "real" to me, like they want to prove something. So, if Evanescence was to perform Everybody's Fool again, it would kinda bother me a little. Because I would feel like Amy is being an hypocrite, even though it's just an old song that was written yeeears ago and is just a fan favourite. Am I the only one who feel that way? (I am actually making a judgement that might offend people. I'm sorry if it bothers you, but by respect I want to genuinely express a point of view. And well, you know, that's just, like, my opinion, man) I think about Amy's past comments about this song quite a bit actually. Keep in mind though I know next to nothing about Taylor and The Pretty Reckless so I'm kind of just going with the general flow of the situation. The thing with the way women dress, in my opinion anyway, is that we should always dress a certain way for ourselves, to make us happy - not anyone else. That way could be dressing with as little or as much fabric as possible, depending on the person. Women who show skin just to sell records or gain attention is sad, but women who show skin because they feel like it is a different can of worms. Plus, a large part of Everybody's Fool seems to revolve around the idea that some celebrities like to look perfect on the outside but don't show us anything too personal - at the end of the day, everyone's a mess from time to time. Again, I don't know much about Taylor, but just because she's putting on a bit of a persona doesn't necessarily make it less authentic. She may not dress like that all the time and reserve it for performances, but that look might just be a piece of her. Even though I love the color pink, if I was in a metal band, I probably wouldn't perform in that color because it wouldn't flow as much. I'd probably wear black. That doesn't make it not real; it's just an artistic choice to let certain parts of us show. And it's not like Amy's street clothes are too similar to her performance outfits. *shrugs* Just my thoughts.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2016 21:27:13 GMT -5
Everyone has a right to express themselves in any way they wish to, as long as it isn't hurting anyone. Their body, their rules. Honestly, music is about so much more than what someone happens to be wearing onstage. Should we really judge someone based on a singular aspect...rather than taking a look at all sides of who they are as a person and examining their values, the way they treat other people, all of that? Taylor Momsen is an incredibly talented artist who provides a unique style of lyrical expression. She's got a third album coming out next month and she's only a year older than I am. And...honestly...does anyone remember the things people said about Lady Gaga when she came onto the scene with Poker Face and Bad Romance? It's...not that different. If you don't do things the "right" way, you're a freak at best, and other words I can't say on this forum at worst. Usually, it's directed at a woman, and we all know what Amy has said about the difficulties of being a woman in the industry. There's always an opinion out there when it comes to women. Or people who happen to be perceived as women.
Like that, for example. If a guy takes his shirt off, nobody says anything. But if a girl walks around with shorts that are exposing leg, you've got everyone saying something. Even if a woman isn't exposing herself, she's subjected to harassment. I wear a nice shirt and khaki pants and I still ran into an incident at work in April that I would rather not talk about here.
Everybody's Fool is about the empty soullessness and impossible expectations of celebrity culture, and how it can hurt people even if it doesn't seem like it affects them. I really think that was the whole message, what with the whole "Lies" brand. That is to say there aren't individual celebrities who can't inspire us and continue to shine a light on this dark world, but celebrity culture is a different matter. And I think that's the problem when we look at cases like Britney Spears and Miley Cyrus. They're a symptom of a much larger problem.
Or how about the fact that the industry can care more about money than the well being of artists (Kesha). Everybody's Fool is so still relevant today even though it is a bit dated.
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TDS
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Post by TDS on Sept 22, 2016 6:20:09 GMT -5
Thanks for your input! I guess I really need to separate the song and what Amy says and even not take it too seriously sometimes. I guess I'm still wondering/confused about the whole "I choose to show my skin because I am an independant woman and I do what I want with my body". I am not actually against this initiative but it kind of gives exactly what some men want and confort them into objectifying women. But as for Taylor, it's more about her behaviour on stage. She grinded her microphone stand, danced laciouvsly. I was just surprised to see this at an Evanescence concert I guess. Like that, for example. If a guy takes his shirt off, nobody says anything. But if a girl walks around with shorts that are exposing leg, you've got everyone saying something. To be honest it's not just about wearing little clothes. There is the behaviour attached to it too, you know. Anyway, thank you for answering me!
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Post by AeternusAmatorius on Sept 23, 2016 21:57:50 GMT -5
Well, I only saw TPR once and that's when I saw Halestorm and to br quite honest, some of TPR's songs are... provocative...
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Psypher
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Post by Psypher on Sept 23, 2016 22:10:35 GMT -5
With how old the song is I wouldn't be surprised if Amy didn't identify with the original meaning if they ever played it live again. It's possible they'd just be playing it to let fans hear an older song live.
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Post by AeternusAmatorius on Sept 23, 2016 22:35:23 GMT -5
With how old the song is I wouldn't be surprised if Amy didn't identify with the original meaning if they ever played it live again. It's possible they'd just be playing it to let fans hear an older song live. Whisper is another song where Amy has forgotten the original meaning/feeling behind the song. XD But yes, I agree.... Personally, I'd rather not see EF on the setlist. But then again, it's my second least favorite song from Fallen so...
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Post by Rarkphoenix on Nov 14, 2016 15:20:29 GMT -5
The meaning definitely develops over time. I'm actually finding with a couple of my own songs that lyrics that I wrote at the time and thought "yeah, it's not great, but I guess it kind of fits" are now taking on a whole new and empowering meaning for me now that I'm in a different stage of life. Almost as if I'd sort of written them prophetically. I think Amy said in a fairly recent interview promoting this tour that Everybody's Fool is still relevant because promiscuity is still a big thing in the music industry (and objectively, why not, I guess it sells music). In terms of artists that Ev take on tour with them, I get the impression that, where they have a choice, the emphasis is on two things: 1) Diversity. I've never been to an Ev show where any of the opening acts are particularly similar (I've seen everything from elaborate prog to straight up punk styles supporting them, and I've only seen them live twice!). Everyone in Evanescence is remarkably eclectic in their music tastes, and very open minded to new styles of music, so I guess this is sort of an extension of that. 2) Female musicians. It's no secret that Amy's a bit of a pragmatic feminist, and I think her personal experiences in the music industry mean that she always wants to give a leg up to struggling female artists (take hiring Jen, for example). So I think, regardless of how these women express themselves, she's always willing to give them a chance by bringing them on tour (that and female company on the road, we dudes can be pretty boring sometimes ). On a side and completely subjective note. I'm completely in agreement that TPR are sh*te. They're musically reasonably talented, but their music is boring and their lyrics are pretty shallow and uninspiring (Yup, I know I suck)
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2016 17:38:27 GMT -5
I think TPR is great, it's still an up and coming band, though, relatively new compared to Ev and Halestorm. I have yet to listen to the new album that came out last month, but I heard Take Me Down and it's got an almost dancey vibe to it. Can't say I relate to the band even half as much, they're alright. Would I go out of my way to see them live? Probably not. But I think female fronted bands deserve more support than they typically get.
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Post by Rarkphoenix on Nov 15, 2016 12:33:57 GMT -5
I think this in a way was what Everybody's Fool was originally about. I'd in no way class myself as a feminist, but I'd have to agree that there's still a real issue with how women in all styles of music are presented and, to me at least, the song is less about promiscuity vs covering-up and more about genuine vs fake. As much as I personally dislike both Halestorm and TPR, from a musician's perspective I can appreciate that they're both talented bands and they've both got their own unique style. There isn't too much "hopping on the band wagon" going on with either band.
I still get it quite a lot as heterosexual dude who loves Evanescence. People who don't know me instantly assume I love them because I've got the hots for Amy and it's only when they listen to the music and get to know me and my past that they understand that the connection is a lot deeper than that. I think in some ways Amy's had a mixed blessing in her career, because she is pretty, so I think sometimes people just assume she's a gimic when she's so blatantly not. On the one hand it has helped boost their sales (I'm sure there were plenty of people who bought Fallen when it came out because of that "hot chick from Effervescence"), on the other hand it's meant that Amy's constantly having to defend her authenticity. Helping bands like Halestorm and TPR is kind of her way of giving back to people in her position, I reckon.
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Hana O'malley
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Post by Hana O'malley on Jan 5, 2017 0:13:31 GMT -5
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