this is
awesome.
for the sake of archive it's going here:
AltPress: Taylor Momsen, Amy Lee, Maria Brink & Lzzy Hale discuss labels in music
By Paige Owens - June 16, 2021,
part 1 +
part 2Before there was Amy Lee, Lzzy Hale, Taylor Momsen and Maria Brink, there was Joan Jett, Patti Smith, Poly Styrene and Kathleen Hanna. Generation after generation, these rock stars and others in their position have dreaded receiving what has become an inevitable label of âfemale-led,â âfemale-fronted,â âwomen in rockâ or âfemale rock.â While all of these talented individuals recognize their gender, none of them need a reminder of itâand furthermore, none of them need to be categorized into a nonexistent subdivision of rock music branded to keep women from reaching a certain level of success and stardom.
Through their talent and perseverance, each of them has pressed beyond societal limitations in their career field and has been dismantling the patriarchy that exists in the rock ânâ roll industry. Besides, rock and punk were created on the foundation of defiance and rebellion.
While Lee (Evanescence), Hale (Halestorm), Momsen (The Pretty Reckless) and Brink (In This Moment) have all linked together in some form through their spider web of connections and passion to tour together or collaborate with one another, theyâve remained supportive of each other and hopeful for the future of rock despite the healthy competition of working in the same genre. Regardless of their personal and professional battles with the unknown created by the pandemic, Lee (The Bitter Truth), Momsen (Death By Rock And Roll) and Brink (Mother) all released albums, while Hale has already made strides on her next body of work. Originally, this round table was intended to highlight the misogyny of the entertainment industry and focus on each artistsâ strengths. But after a raw and honest observation of this virtual gathering, we collectively shifted direction to the true resonance of womenâs empowerment.
I want to talk about how in the music industry, women are oftentimes made to feel like thereâs not enough room for women to be in music. But you all have worked to break that stigma. You support each other, youâve worked together and some of you have toured together. How did you make sure to continuously do that, and why was it so important?AMY LEE: I think itâs funny because it goes along with giving men what they want, the feminism/sexism question of, âWhy is there that stigma that women are going to fight each other and thereâs only room for one?â
And thereâs always been this thought in my mind that thatâs actually a misogynistic idea because they want to see a catfight. They want us to mud wrestle. They want to imagine that we all want to just tear each other apart, and the clothes are coming off. [Itâs] this ridiculous thing because in life, of course, weâve all definitely been around very competitive women that are tough to be around. I donât have friends like that. I donât know about you all, but itâs hard to be around those girls. Theyâre usually just really angry. But overwhelmingly, the people that we are and that we want to surround ourselves with are people that lift each other up, and we want to see each other do well.
I need my women in my life. I need my girlfriends, my sisters, my grandmas. That means so much to have that understanding, support, friendship and camaraderie.
LZZY HALE: Well, Amy, itâs funny because when I was tailing you in the music scene because you had blown the door open with âBring Me To Life,â and when we got signed and we were starting to pitch stuff to radio, I canât tell you how many times the radio program director would be like,
âWell, weâve already got one. Weâve already got our token girl on the rock radio.âLEE: Yeah, only one chick because thatâs a genre.HALE: Exactly. That becomes disheartening to young women looking up trying to do these things. Of course, Iâm like, âWell, thatâs ridiculous. Iâm just going to keep doing what Iâm doing.â But to answer your question, the vast majority of women in this business, and in this genre specifically, all four of us support each other. Weâve worked together. Weâve toured together. We want to see each other succeed. We repost each otherâs music when it comes out because we are sisters. And that means a lot to us because of that very same question where we were coming up in the scene believing that, âOh, weâre all in competition, and we should be.â And when we actually got here and arrived, thatâs really not true. And to Amyâs point, any girl that actually thinks that way, itâs just because sheâs been so incredibly beaten down and insecure about what she does. So sheâs in that mindset.
TAYLOR MOMSEN: I donât disagree with anything either of you said, but I also think that competition is a good thing.
HALE: Well, thereâs definitely friendly competition.
MOMSEN: Yeah, but I also think that competition is something that forces you to examine yourself and make yourself better and pushes you forward. To say that there isnât competition, I think that thatâs a false statement. It doesnât necessarily have to come from a negative standpoint. Weâre all competitive here. Weâre all putting out our own records. I think competition is a really healthy thing. And I think itâs a very necessary thing, especially in music. And I think especially when it gets related to women, people tend to equate that to girl fights. And itâs like, âNo.â I love all you girls, and Iâm very supportive of everything that you do. I think that itâs healthy.
LEE: We want to be competitive in the same game [and] held to the same standards as all the guys. Competition isnât just between us. This isnât the circle of fighting.
MOMSEN: No, the competition is just the competition of the overall rock ânâ roll world.
LEE: Totally. And weâve talked about that before, how itâs really more about dropping the subject. I donât want the qualifier to be, â
Hey, this is the female this. So give this some extra credit.â Just drop it. I want to be the best because our music is the best, period. It doesnât have anything to do with anything else.
MOMSEN: 1,000%. I think that Amy just hit the nail on the head because, to me,
we get asked, âWhatâs it like to be a woman in rock?â And Iâm like, âI donât know. Itâs the same.â To me, itâs like, âWhoâs writing the best songs? Whoâs putting out the best music? Whoâs making the best material?â Thatâs who Iâm looking up to. And it has nothing to do with their gender. In one way, I feel like the more we talk about it and the more we put a stigma on it, youâre just prolonging the problem when really it shouldnât be a topic of conversation at all.
LEE: Before we started,
I was thinking, womenâs empowerment is if we didnât talk about womenâs empowerment at all and actually spent this hour talking about our music and what we do.
I want to talk about music. Lzzy, I know youâre working on new music. Amy, youâve got a new album out. Taylor, you just put on an incredible album. And Maria, you put out an album in March 2020. Taking an album on tour, being onstage and being around the people that support you is an empowering feeling. How are you navigating not being able to take what youâve put your blood, sweat and tears into out to your fans?LEE: I especially like when youâre making music, and Iâm thinking about the show like, âOh, this is going to be the cool part of the set when it all starts out, and the lights are low and then boomâthe guitars come in, and then this happens.â And that feeling of âI canât wait to do thisâ still exists. Weâre all in the same boat as everybody else that we donât know whatâs going to happen next and how long things are really going to take.
But itâs hard just because I miss that. You want that feeling. Itâs not just about praise. I want to see hands in the air.MOMSEN: I think that, especially now in the crazy times weâre living in, people need music more now than ever. I think music has such a healing quality to it. Withholding it till you can have that magical moment onstage again feels almost unfair to the fans. So thatâs why we decided to put our album out. But of course, as Amy said, you miss playing live. That symbiotic relationship that you have with the fans when youâre onstage, itâs for one moment.
Itâs for one night. It doesnât exist virtually. But I think that we all have to remember, and that includes the fans and everyone, too, [that] as long as weâre patient and do our part, itâs gonna come back. Live shows arenât gone forever. When they do come back, itâs going to be bigger and better than ever because everyoneâs been missing them so much that theyâre just going to explode.
HALE: Even when we started Halestorm when I was 13, we at least had two bowling alley gigs a month. [Laughs.] Iâve never gone this long without a live show. Weâre out on the road all the time, and we do consider ourselves, first and foremost, a live band. Thatâs what we love the most. Not that we donât love recording and creatingâthatâs a whole part of it. Itâs been really hard for me, actually, because Iâve had to look at myself in a different way. Iâve had to get to know myself again, and who am I without this? Who am I without the stage? Who am I without having that constant goal that, âOK, weâre going on tour in eight days, for seven weeks?â Itâs always been that way. In one way, there is a silver lining to that because all of the songs that I was writing pre-quarantine and pre-COVID, we still have them, and weâre still recording them, but I think it made me look at everything just a little deeper.
MARIA BRINK: We were all scared and glued to the TV in the beginning, and I didnât know if it was The Walking Dead or what was happening. So I think that we just wanted to release it. We were nervous to do it. Our album cycle is over now, and weâve never toured the album once. Thatâs never happened to us ever. But I think it was a blessing, and then we wound up getting nominated for a Grammy. And we were like, âThank God for all that.â But I think everything in this has had its pros and then its cons. There have been really beautiful things, being able to be around my family and focus on the things in my home I never get to focus on. Like Lzzy was saying, finding things in myself, empowering myself, learning more about the music business, learning more about all of my numbers, all of my things. There have been a lot of powerful things like that. Some of the negatives for me are probably, psychologically, I do the type of music that I do to release a lot of my inner darkness or trauma or rage. In my everyday life, Iâm very kind and sweet and caring. I donât walk around angry. So for me, thatâs like my real outlet onstage. I can release all the fire, and it doesnât explode and build up in me and make me crazy.
I think that music will come out of this because Iâm starting to write now, too. The best music in the world usually is written from pain and fear and the unknown. All these things that all of us are going through in this whole year with just the politics and Black Lives Matter and COVID-19, weâre all filled with so many emotions that weâre probably going to all write really good music. So thatâs the real positive thing that I thinkâs been for all of this. Everythingâs about balance. Weâre all powerful, and we can find the good in all this.
In part one of this round-table conversation, Amy Lee, Lzzy Hale, Taylor Momsen and Maria Brink flipped the script.
âI was thinking womenâs empowerment is if we didnât talk about womenâs empowerment at all and actually spent this hour talking about our music and what we do,â Lee suggested. So, they highlighted their new albums and discussed why people needed music more than ever during the COVID-19 pandemic instead.
In part two, the four artists spoke about rockâs cyclical nature and why âfemale-frontedâ will never be a genre.
I want to talk to you all about Gene Simmonsâs whole ârock is deadâ statement. I think this is a really strange thing to say while weâre in the middle of a pandemic, so thereâs no touring, and there are fewer albums coming out. But itâs a strange thing when you see so many amazing artists like all of you who are charting these massive rock ânâ roll albums. What do you think about ârock is deadâ?LZZY HALE: Well, rock canât die if it never goes away. Rock never goes away. Itâs a constant. This is part of why I love rock, and the genre is that weâre not chasing trends. Weâre not trying to compete with Justin Bieber. There are a lot of different genres, especially things that go over the top and anything thatâs a shining light right now. But that stuff burns, and then it fades away. But weâre underground, and we just keep doing what weâre doing. Rock cannot die if it never goes away.
AMY LEE: Itâs just not mainstream.
TAYLOR MOMSEN: I think you have to remember, too, rock ânâ roll canât die for a multitude of reasons. One of them being that itâs one of the original forms of music. Itâs one of the original art forms. It stems from the blues. It includes everything. Rock ânâ roll is the blues. Itâs jazz. Itâs country. Itâs pop. Itâs hip-hop. Dare I say, itâs folk, and itâs bluegrass. Itâs literally every form of music combined into one. And we get to play really loud electric guitars, which is just awesome.
So you canât eliminate rock ânâ roll. It canât die. Anyone who says that itâs dead, in my opinion, theyâre just incorrect because
youâre looking at something from a mainstream perspective. Rock was never in the mainstream.
Itâs had its moments in the sun, where it takes over and kicks everything elseâs ass. But in general, itâs very cyclical. If you look at history, the â60s and the â70s, there was a renaissance of rock ânâ roll where all these artists and bands came out, and they were speaking for the generation. Theyâre speaking for the time. And they were really being the voice and were amazing, and it overtook everything.
Then the â80s came in, and rock started to bend a little bit more toward the pop vein of things, and pop overtook everything again. And then the â90s and the grunge scene, thatâs just so honest and so raw and so emotionally connected that I donât even know how to process what I just heard. So it has its moments where it shines, but itâs never gone. I always just say rock is resting, and itâs just waiting for the fans.
HALE: Itâs not like itâs this niche genre. Anyway, my point is, rock ânâ roll canât die. Itâs primal, and itâs necessary, and itâs needed. And I think itâs needed more now than ever in the world.
MARIA BRINK: Yeah, I agree with you.
MOMSEN: Itâs soul music. I need it the same way I need food and water and oxygen. Itâs a part of who I am. And without it, I donât feel like myself. I donât feel complete as a person. So I donât think that itâs something that can ever disappear.
BRINK: I think everythingâs also a matter of perspective and not looking at it from the right perspective. Just because itâs not in the mainstream like you [all] are saying, itâs still existing and very strong. [Gene Simmons is] just not looking at it. Heâs just not paying attention, I suppose.
And I feel like after COVID, heavy metal and rock ânâ roll, the comeback will be harder than itâs ever been. Youâve been locked up. We all feel chained, and we want to get out so bad. I feel like we all just want to run outside and scream and run. And I feel like who wants to go to a happy, soft show after all this? I feel like people are going to want to come out, just run around and go crazy, and metal and rock ânâ roll is where theyâre going to go do that.
So I think weâre going to have a massive surge coming soon. But I think weâre also thriving, very alive and very powerful right now. So tell him to pay attention.
LEE: In that same article where he said that, he says something more offensive.
He totally called being a woman in rock, like a female rock band, a âgenre.â Theyâre making cool things, but, you know, for âthe female genre.â Everything else you ever say, Iâm done listening to you.And I think thatâs part of the massive problem. Eventually, the way that we fix this is that those people will no longer be involved in this community, and the young generation and trailblazers like all of yourselves will continue to support this message of: â
Fuck it, donât âfemale-frontâ me.â Thatâs not a genre.
This interview first appeared in Alternative Press 392, the Power Issue: Women Rising, which is available here.