|
Post by rionka on Jan 15, 2015 19:51:54 GMT -5
i have these feels from time to time. it was strongest after amy relieved that she is expecting a baby. i felt like the biggest crap because of these thoughts. It eventually passed, of course. Also there's that thing like "i live in the area where Evanescence really don't come more than once"... i just don't want to give it up. it's not possible to give up. Maybe there will be another chance one day.
|
|
moe
Baron/Baroness of EvThreads
Posts: 128
|
Post by moe on Jan 18, 2015 22:41:57 GMT -5
Have you ever tried writing and recording anything? The amount of time it takes to write everything, demo everything, find a producer, start recording properly, record orchestral parts, do a million and one takes of everything, add effects, start mixing (which means now trawling through hours and hours of recording), master the thing, promote it, record video and then go on a conveyor belt tour of samey interviews, go on tour meaning living in cramped conditions, not washing for days, not seeing your loved ones for months and months, living a cyclical, mind-numbing life that, while it's a great opportunity, it's monotonous and incredibly hard work. You're damn right people want a break from that. Artists and bands don't owe their fanbases anything. They just happen to be somebody that makes music that you like. You carry on liking them until you don't like them any more. That's how it works. Albums are done when they're done, and I'd rather have something that a band or artist deem as finished than something they rushed out to try and appease a whole bunch of people they don't know and never met. It's art, not a consumer product. You know how many albums Portishead have released since 1997? Two. How many albums Kate Bush has released in the last 25 years? Four. How many albums Nine Inch Nails released between 1988 and 2005? Four. How many albums Tool have released since 1996? Three. So you use four artists / bands as an example of why it is hard to make and release albums in a timely manner? Lets use Maynard Keenan (lead singer of Tool) as an example, since you thought it was wise to compare Ev's lack of material to Tool's lack of material. Sure, Tool has only released three albums since 1996, however, Maynard's other bands have released much more material. Three studio albums with A Perfect Circle. Six albums with Puscifer. On top of that Maynard runs his own vineyard. Also, besides the lack of material with Tool they STILL headline tours pretty much every summer You act as if everything you listed is such hard work. These financially successful musicians have nothing else to do with their time. It is not like they have to struggle in a mediocre minimum wage job while also trying to support a family AND trying to find time to write and record albums. They really do have all the time AND resources at their disposal. Amy is not excluded from this very obvious truth. Writing good music IS hard work. But if you are true artist it is more play than work. Amy has a studio in her house. Let us see the fruits of that investment. It is very obvious that the last Evanescence album was written and recorded simply to fulfill the contract with Wind Up. It was not what Amy originally had in mind. It was forced Now lets look at the other side, shall we? First Aid Kit - three BEAUTIFUL studio albums in 4 years, they are busy working on another Bright Eyes - nine albums in 10 years The Beatles - 23 albums in 8 years The Decemberists - 7 albums in 13 years It is not too much to ask for a decent amount of material to be released by someone who supposedly devotes their life to being an artist
|
|
|
Post by dannycastillo on Jan 19, 2015 2:50:08 GMT -5
Here is a list of things that Amy Lee owes us...
1. Nothing
Here is a list of the things that we are entitled to as Amy's fans...
2. Released music
Here is a list of Amy's things that we can't (and shouldn't want to) control...
1. Her time 2. Her personal priorities 3. Her way of doing things
Honestly, if any of you are bothered by the fact that she's not releasing music frequently, all I can say is "move on". There are countless of other artists that you could be listening to, and some of the feelings of entitlement in this thread are just straight up ridiculous. The only thing Amy owes us is the music we paid for, the merchandise we bought, or the shows we paid tickets to, and I am 100% sure that all those things have been received.
I don't even know what she'd think if she came across some of these posts. It's kind of embarrassing, tbh.
|
|
|
Post by ladychaos on Jan 19, 2015 15:09:34 GMT -5
I completely agree with Danny. I actually find it kind of appalling that anyone should think it within their rights to demand more work from an artist, any artist. Amy does things the way she does them for a reason. It doesn't matter if anyone else thinks that reason is good enough. When she releases more music, solo or with Ev, I'll be more than happy to hear it, but I, personally, would never for a second think to complain about an artist's agenda...it just seems petty.
|
|
|
Post by PJ. on Jan 20, 2015 11:30:19 GMT -5
Have you ever tried writing and recording anything? The amount of time it takes to write everything, demo everything, find a producer, start recording properly, record orchestral parts, do a million and one takes of everything, add effects, start mixing (which means now trawling through hours and hours of recording), master the thing, promote it, record video and then go on a conveyor belt tour of samey interviews, go on tour meaning living in cramped conditions, not washing for days, not seeing your loved ones for months and months, living a cyclical, mind-numbing life that, while it's a great opportunity, it's monotonous and incredibly hard work. You're damn right people want a break from that. Artists and bands don't owe their fanbases anything. They just happen to be somebody that makes music that you like. You carry on liking them until you don't like them any more. That's how it works. Albums are done when they're done, and I'd rather have something that a band or artist deem as finished than something they rushed out to try and appease a whole bunch of people they don't know and never met. It's art, not a consumer product. You know how many albums Portishead have released since 1997? Two. How many albums Kate Bush has released in the last 25 years? Four. How many albums Nine Inch Nails released between 1988 and 2005? Four. How many albums Tool have released since 1996? Three. So you use four artists / bands as an example of why it is hard to make and release albums in a timely manner? Lets use Maynard Keenan (lead singer of Tool) as an example, since you thought it was wise to compare Ev's lack of material to Tool's lack of material. Sure, Tool has only released three albums since 1996, however, Maynard's other bands have released much more material. Three studio albums with A Perfect Circle. Six albums with Puscifer. On top of that Maynard runs his own vineyard. Also, besides the lack of material with Tool they STILL headline tours pretty much every summer You act as if everything you listed is such hard work. These financially successful musicians have nothing else to do with their time. It is not like they have to struggle in a mediocre minimum wage job while also trying to support a family AND trying to find time to write and record albums. They really do have all the time AND resources at their disposal. Amy is not excluded from this very obvious truth. Writing good music IS hard work. But if you are true artist it is more play than work. Amy has a studio in her house. Let us see the fruits of that investment. It is very obvious that the last Evanescence album was written and recorded simply to fulfill the contract with Wind Up. It was not what Amy originally had in mind. It was forced Now lets look at the other side, shall we? First Aid Kit - three BEAUTIFUL studio albums in 4 years, they are busy working on another Bright Eyes - nine albums in 10 years The Beatles - 23 albums in 8 years The Decemberists - 7 albums in 13 years It is not too much to ask for a decent amount of material to be released by someone who supposedly devotes their life to being an artist I agree with Danny. Dude, chill out. Yes, I am bummed that we have to be patient for new material but honestly Amy doesn't HAVE to do anything. If she does write new EV material, great. If she writes solo stuff, awesome. If she doesn't, that is her choice. She has a baby and we have to respect her personal life. The fact she took a break after TOD to live married life was smart and her choice. The fact she is taking a break after having a baby is smart and her choice. Imagine if you had people out there pretty much DEMANDING new music to be made...would you want to do it? I would keep it to myself honestly. The way "fans" behave sometimes is embarrassing and makes me not want to be apart of the "fans". Show Amy some respect and be patient. Evanescence and Amy has no label, no contract, and certainly no obligation to anyone. It should be if we get a new album, not when.
|
|
|
Post by Himmelslicht on Jan 20, 2015 12:25:23 GMT -5
Every person, say, artist is different. Some are more proficuous than others. Each artist has their rhythm: you will find artists releasing one-two albums every year (look at Blutengel) and then you have artists releasing one or two albums in their lifetime as musicians. It's life, we're all different, thank whatever entity you believe in. Since it's their life and their life only, I think we should be more than rejoiced to know Amy likes her fans and doesn't want to stop making music because we're one of her reasons. As many people here, I agree with everything Danny said. Complaining about a situation to someone who owes you nothing - but actually gives you hours of musical pleasure - IS petty.
|
|
|
Post by Rarkphoenix on Jan 20, 2015 17:52:13 GMT -5
To be honest, I'm sure she could release far more music than she does, but she is the very definition of a perfectionist. There's undoubtedly hundreds of incredible half finished tracks/riffs/poems/melodies that none of us will ever hear and from a fan's perspective that is a shame. The thing is, and this is, I think, one of the biggest reason why I feel I can relate to Amy even though I've yet to meet her. She shares my belief that music shouldn't have to become work, and that if you have to sit down and think "right, I need to get this song recorded by Wednesday" it's already too much like hard work. Creating music is most fun when it's that random, spontaneous spark of inspiration where you get an idea and it just spirals into something crazy and you just want to keep going with that idea and see where it goes. Then you want to share it, because you listen back to it and it gives you that feeling of pride, hits you in different ways when you're in a different frame of mind. Even if nobody else gets that warm buzz you feel when they hear it, it's still ten times better than that piece you've been working on for years, but that doesn't quite ignite that spark.
Honestly, there's probably a flawless piece of music hidden in Amy's studio somewhere that we'd all love to bits if we heard it, and we'll probably never hear it, and I'm cool with that, because whether you're a musician or a listener or both, musical appreciation is subjective and you only share with the world what affects you most deeply and what you want the world to hear.
|
|
moe
Baron/Baroness of EvThreads
Posts: 128
|
Post by moe on Jan 20, 2015 21:57:44 GMT -5
Here is a list of things that Amy Lee owes us... 1. Nothing Here is a list of the things that we are entitled to as Amy's fans... 2. Released music Here is a list of Amy's things that we can't (and shouldn't want to) control... 1. Her time 2. Her personal priorities 3. Her way of doing things Honestly, if any of you are bothered by the fact that she's not releasing music frequently, all I can say is "move on". There are countless of other artists that you could be listening to, and some of the feelings of entitlement in this thread are just straight up ridiculous. The only thing Amy owes us is the music we paid for, the merchandise we bought, or the shows we paid tickets to, and I am 100% sure that all those things have been received. I don't even know what she'd think if she came across some of these posts. It's kind of embarrassing, tbh. I never said Amy "owed" us anything. I am saying that it is a cop out when she says that she needs five years to grow as an artist. Growing as an artist comes with actually making artwork. Throwing around words like "entitlement" only proves that you lack perspective and are arguing out of context. It almost makes as much nonsense as how you assume that people who are upset by the lack of material do not also listen to other music. I love Amy Lee, respect her and her art very deeply. That does not mean that as a fan I should not be allowed to also critique her art practices and share my opinion on an online community devoted to the artist. We should try to actually have an open discourse about the work that is Evanescence instead of numerous overly optimistic posts and shunning of any actual critique of the work. That only leads to empty posting.
|
|
calcol28
Baron/Baroness of EvThreads
Don't sweat the petty things and dont pet the sweaty things!
Posts: 295
|
Post by calcol28 on Jan 20, 2015 22:02:25 GMT -5
To be honest, I'm sure she could release far more music than she does, but she is the very definition of a perfectionist. There's undoubtedly hundreds of incredible half finished tracks/riffs/poems/melodies that none of us will ever hear and from a fan's perspective that is a shame. The thing is, and this is, I think, one of the biggest reason why I feel I can relate to Amy even though I've yet to meet her. She shares my belief that music shouldn't have to become work, and that if you have to sit down and think "right, I need to get this song recorded by Wednesday" it's already too much like hard work. Creating music is most fun when it's that random, spontaneous spark of inspiration where you get an idea and it just spirals into something crazy and you just want to keep going with that idea and see where it goes. Then you want to share it, because you listen back to it and it gives you that feeling of pride, hits you in different ways when you're in a different frame of mind. Even if nobody else gets that warm buzz you feel when they hear it, it's still ten times better than that piece you've been working on for years, but that doesn't quite ignite that spark. Honestly, there's probably a flawless piece of music hidden in Amy's studio somewhere that we'd all love to bits if we heard it, and we'll probably never hear it, and I'm cool with that, because whether you're a musician or a listener or both, musical appreciation is subjective and you only share with the world what affects you most deeply and what you want the world to hear. Thank you for sharing your opinion without sounding like a douche bag. +5 points to you.
|
|
|
Post by Lycrymosa on Jan 20, 2015 22:13:15 GMT -5
Here is a list of things that Amy Lee owes us... 1. Nothing Here is a list of the things that we are entitled to as Amy's fans... 2. Released music Here is a list of Amy's things that we can't (and shouldn't want to) control... 1. Her time 2. Her personal priorities 3. Her way of doing things Honestly, if any of you are bothered by the fact that she's not releasing music frequently, all I can say is "move on". There are countless of other artists that you could be listening to, and some of the feelings of entitlement in this thread are just straight up ridiculous. The only thing Amy owes us is the music we paid for, the merchandise we bought, or the shows we paid tickets to, and I am 100% sure that all those things have been received. I don't even know what she'd think if she came across some of these posts. It's kind of embarrassing, tbh. I never said Amy "owed" us anything. I am saying that it is a cop out when she says that she needs five years to grow as an artist. Growing as an artist comes with actually making artwork. Throwing around words like "entitlement" only proves that you lack perspective and are arguing out of context. It almost makes as much nonsense as how you assume that people who are upset by the lack of material do not also listen to other music. I love Amy Lee, respect her and her art very deeply. That does not mean that as a fan I should not be allowed to also critique her art practices and share my opinion on an online community devoted to the artist. We should try to actually have an open discourse about the work that is Evanescence instead of numerous overly optimistic posts and shunning of any expression of slight negativity. That only leads to empty posting. I don't think Amy has said she needs 5 years to grow as an artist, the last time she took 5 years she said she just wanted to enjoy being married and having a normal life. This time shes focusing on her family, it's not because shes taking time to grow as an artist, but it's because shes focusing something completely separate. I'm sure it helps her grow as an artist, but that not the main purpose of why she's doing what shes doing. She just simply wants to live her life as a normal person. She's going to be busy for a while with Jack so I wouldn't expect much from her anytime soon. Yes some people manage to have children and still release material, but Amy is a very focused person and when she does something she wants to give it 100% attention. Right now Jack is getting all that attention.
|
|
|
Post by dannycastillo on Jan 21, 2015 1:48:12 GMT -5
I never said Amy "owed" us anything. I am saying that it is a cop out when she says that she needs five years to grow as an artist. Growing as an artist comes with actually making artwork. Throwing around words like "entitlement" only proves that you lack perspective and are arguing out of context. It almost makes as much nonsense as how you assume that people who are upset by the lack of material do not also listen to other music. I love Amy Lee, respect her and her art very deeply. That does not mean that as a fan I should not be allowed to also critique her art practices and share my opinion on an online community devoted to the artist. We should try to actually have an open discourse about the work that is Evanescence instead of numerous overly optimistic posts and shunning of any actual critique of the work. That only leads to empty posting. I never said you said that Amy owed us anything. Also, could you provide the source where Amy Lee says she needs five years to grow as an artist? I don't remember ever hearing or reading that, but I may be wrong. "Growing as an artist comes with actually making artwork." That's what works for you as an artist. Cool. It's not the case for everybody. If you think that I lack perspective and that I am "arguing" out of context, then that's cool too. Apparently, all the people who liked what I had to say must live in my crazy fantasy world where non contextual thoughts just fly out of my unicorn horn. I also never said/assumed that you don't listen to other music, but I suggested devoting your energy to other artists while Amy creates. You are allowed to critique her art practices and share your opinion, but that also comes with allowing others to critique your opinion. This discourse is open. I'm not asking you to leave, erasing your posts, or banning you from here, am I? I'm just sharing my personal opinion on your personal opinion, and you are perfectly in your right to express your opinion on my opinion on your opinion. Some of us like to be optimistic and think that there is no wrong when it comes to Evanescence, some of us are never happy or satiated with the amount of music she gives us, and some of us like enchiladas.
|
|
|
Post by AeternusAmatorius on Jan 22, 2015 21:12:47 GMT -5
Well, I'm just thankful that in the deeper with Amy Lee interview, Amy said there is Evanescence material that hasn't been released that she would like to do something with. If that means Amy coming back in Evanescence or just Amy, I'm fine with that. I love Amy's artistic ability and the artistic ability of Evanescence as a whole.
As for the sense of entitlement that seems to be coming in this thread and Amy seeing it, I'm sure she would care but wouldn't care enough to feed the trolls. Like she said in the Deeper interview, she hates it when people jump to crazy conclusions but she doesn't let it bother her - which she shouldn't. She shouldn't have to deal with all the negativity and judgment and "NEW EVANESCENCE NOW!!!" when she was enjoying pregnancy and is enjoying new motherhood. We wouldn't like it if Amy put something out and, not in so many words, said "Here! You happy now!? You got what you want!!!" because we'd feel bad and heart broken that Amy felt forced to put something out she was only slightly satisfied with, would we? As for critiquing an artists work, there's a way to do it without sounding like a total dick, douche bag, like you're bashing the artist and their work or like your opinion is the only one that matters. When others comment on what you've said and it differs from what you've said, it's not because you're being targeted. Also, when multiple people tell someone multiple times that their being either irrational, rude, coming off as having an entitlement, or etc... it's most likely because you - not everyone else - are doing what others are saying and it's your doing, and only your doing.
Anyway, I'm happy that Amy decided to take control of the Aftermath project and told Dave and Mark that the music that wasn't used and were favorites needed something done with it. I love Aftermath as I can just get lost in the music and it puts me in a meditative state. I like it when I can lose myself in the music and just... relax.
|
|
moe
Baron/Baroness of EvThreads
Posts: 128
|
Post by moe on Jan 26, 2015 19:44:09 GMT -5
I never said Amy "owed" us anything. I am saying that it is a cop out when she says that she needs five years to grow as an artist. Growing as an artist comes with actually making artwork. Throwing around words like "entitlement" only proves that you lack perspective and are arguing out of context. It almost makes as much nonsense as how you assume that people who are upset by the lack of material do not also listen to other music. I love Amy Lee, respect her and her art very deeply. That does not mean that as a fan I should not be allowed to also critique her art practices and share my opinion on an online community devoted to the artist. We should try to actually have an open discourse about the work that is Evanescence instead of numerous overly optimistic posts and shunning of any actual critique of the work. That only leads to empty posting. I never said you said that Amy owed us anything. Also, could you provide the source where Amy Lee says she needs five years to grow as an artist? I don't remember ever hearing or reading that, but I may be wrong. "Growing as an artist comes with actually making artwork." That's what works for you as an artist. Cool. It's not the case for everybody. If you think that I lack perspective and that I am "arguing" out of context, then that's cool too. Apparently, all the people who liked what I had to say must live in my crazy fantasy world where non contextual thoughts just fly out of my unicorn horn. I also never said/assumed that you don't listen to other music, but I suggested devoting your energy to other artists while Amy creates. You are allowed to critique her art practices and share your opinion, but that also comes with allowing others to critique your opinion. This discourse is open. I'm not asking you to leave, erasing your posts, or banning you from here, am I? I'm just sharing my personal opinion on your personal opinion, and you are perfectly in your right to express your opinion on my opinion on your opinion. Some of us like to be optimistic and think that there is no wrong when it comes to Evanescence, some of us are never happy or satiated with the amount of music she gives us, and some of us like enchiladas. You can express your opinion without resorting to name calling and singling out certain fans. Personally getting upset over another fans viewpoint is not what an open discourse is about. Accusing fans of "entitlement" due to their opinion is not a critique of the work. It is what is called an ad-hominem attack. You can disagree with a fan's viewpoint of Amy's work without attacking the character of the fans. You can do this without focusing on judging their individual opinion. The fact remains that anytime anyone expresses any sort of negative critique of Amy and the rest of the band's work in this community, personal attacks ensue . Let us behave like actual art appreciators. Everyone has a valid point to be considered. Lets try not to disrespect fans on the simple ground that we are all fans of Evanescence and Amy Lee. You can disagree with the opinions of other fans and still give them the respect they deserve for putting time, energy, thoughts and emotions into something that you also share a love for.
|
|
|
Post by dannycastillo on Jan 26, 2015 23:15:21 GMT -5
I didn't resort to name calling. I'm also not "singling" you out. I'm just expressing my opinion on what you wrote. I'm also not upset at your viewpoints. I just don't agree with them. Stating that your posts reek of entitlement isn't a critique of the work, but it is a critique and personal opinion on your viewpoint (which I'm entitled to do as soon as you hit that post button). Also, judging an opinion is also part of open discourse. Feel free to judge all of mine. I honestly don't think you were being attacked personally, and yes, I do agree that expressing negative opinions about an artist on their fan forum will have negative reactions. I appreciate art, and I'm not saying your point is invalid. I just don't agree with it. I'm sorry if you felt disrespected, but that's not my fault. I also don't appreciate that you are accusing me of doing things that I'm not doing. I don't know you, so I won't disrespect you, but don't take someone disagreeing with your opinion as a "personal attack".
|
|
|
Post by FallenEvArmy on Jan 27, 2015 0:43:25 GMT -5
I thought members of staff were supposed to remain neutral and not get involved with arguments (of course they have opinions to express any other time), but if this argument had been between 2 users and not a member of staff as well, this probably would've been closed a while back.
I know some of us are antsy and upset regarding Ev being up in the air and Amy taking personal time, but still there are better things we could do with our time. Perhaps we can have an ongoing competition like with did on the old EvThreads, I think it was called "Design the third Evanescence album" and it was run by Deteriorate/X at the time.
Every few weeks, we would be given a task (design the album cover, design a tour poster, create an interview spread, design a magazine cover, create a track-list etc.) and a winner chosen for each. I remember we had LOADS of fun with that and I would love if we could do that again, there was zero drama surrounding that thread.
|
|