2001 - 2002 Demo Discussion Thread

[Ring]

Sooo AeternusAmatorius, just to make sure I'm geting this right, there is a fifth Haunted demo, right?

[AeternusAmatorius]

Jun 29, 2013 1:32:52 GMT -5 Ring said:

Sooo AeternusAmatorius, just to make sure I'm geting this right, there is a fifth Haunted demo, right?

Apparently. I'm not sure of it's authenticity. 

[DarkFlare89]

Jun 29, 2013 1:56:33 GMT -5 AeternusAmatorius said:

Jun 29, 2013 1:32:52 GMT -5 Ring said:

Sooo AeternusAmatorius, just to make sure I'm geting this right, there is a fifth Haunted demo, right?

Apparently. I'm not sure of it's authenticity. 

I am still not convinced (sorry!) about Haunted v5. Back when I listened to it on FOI, I didn't think it was different from v2. And I still don't think it is different, especially considering TOM v2, Tourniquet v1, and Hello also have give or take a few seconds of silence at the end (comparing demos to Fallen Promo versions) plus varying degrees of HQ-ness (or not).

Sooo . . . unless we really get down to it and look at both songs and compare them (which, since my summer class is ending next week, I'll have the time to do so if you guys want), I won't be including Haunted v5 until then :/

[AeternusAmatorius]

Demo 5 is different. Minorly but enough to be considered a different version. It's Demo 2 but the vocal ad lib at the end is very different at the very end. Unlike in Demo 2 the vocal ad lib fades with the instruments and there is a lower part that we only hear not even a second of in demo 2. 

DarkFlare89: I made a mistake, after carefully analyzing this, I have realized that version 5 is the version on Publicity Promo.


So here is what I have determined:

Demo 1 is definitely different. 
Demo 2 is different from Demo 5 though the instruments are the same. A few harmonies are different and the ending is different. We also see that this is where they introduced the "Bell/Whistle" instrument thing that is used in the "Fallen" version.
Demo 3 is obviously different because of Origin being merged into Demo 1.
Demo 4 is different because it is mostly demo 1 except for the last chorus and the end of the song.
Demo 5 is different from demo 2 though the instruments are the same. A few harmonies are different and the ending is different. I think this is the one people were mistaking as the Radio Edit, or that's Demo 4... 
Publicity Promo version is demo 5 though obviously mastered/higher quality
Fallen, well that's self explanatory. It sounds nothing like the demos.

So I'm actually thinking the timeline for the demos for Haunted goes:
Demo 1
Demo 3 (because it's like demo 1)
Demo 5 (because it's like demo 2 but the end is longer)
Demo 2 (because it's like demo 5 but the end is shorter)
Demo 4 (because it's demo 1 and 2 together)

[DarkFlare89]

Jun 30, 2013 0:49:09 GMT -5 AeternusAmatorius said:

Demo 5 is different. Minorly but enough to be considered a different version. It's Demo 2 but the vocal ad lib at the end is very different at the very end. Unlike in Demo 2 the vocal ad lib fades with the instruments and there is a lower part that we only hear not even a second of in demo 2. 

DarkFlare89: I made a mistake, after carefully analyzing this, I have realized that version 5 is the version on Publicity Promo.


So here is what I have determined:

Demo 1 is definitely different. 
Demo 2 is different from Demo 5 though the instruments are the same. A few harmonies are different and the ending is different. We also see that this is where they introduced the "Bell/Whistle" instrument thing that is used in the "Fallen" version.
Demo 3 is obviously different because of Origin being merged into Demo 1.
Demo 4 is different because it is mostly demo 1 except for the last chorus and the end of the song.
Demo 5 is different from demo 2 though the instruments are the same. A few harmonies are different and the ending is different. I think this is the one people were mistaking as the Radio Edit, or that's Demo 4... 
Publicity Promo version is demo 5 though obviously mastered/higher quality
Fallen, well that's self explanatory. It sounds nothing like the demos.

So I'm actually thinking the timeline for the demos for Haunted goes:
Demo 1
Demo 3 (because it's like demo 1)
Demo 5 (because it's like demo 2 but the end is longer)
Demo 2 (because it's like demo 5 but the end is shorter)
Demo 4 (because it's demo 1 and 2 together)

Before I begin, for your timeline I'd move v4 after v3 because remember that v4 has v1's lyrics, which are older than v2.

I must not be listening to the right demo. Okay, so I should be primarily paying attention to the end, right?

v5 is on the Pub. Promo right? So that should be this: (LINK) song right? And I should compare this to (LINK) this song right?

See I get that one is 10 seconds shorter (or so) than the other, but I mean, the song itself ends at 3:23 anyways for v2, so 10 extra seconds is just there for no reason. I'm listening to both endings and they don't seem different to me. Am I listening to the correct songs or am I like listening to two of the same demo by mistake?

Okay so in v2 (per link) Amy begins ad-libbing at 3:08 and the fifth BOOM BOOM thing stops at 3:23. In v5 (per link) the same thing happens. So I'm not getting something here. Do I have the right songs or am I like, listening to two v2 or something?

Let me see a few links:

LINK 1 - This one is cut at the end, so I can't compare with this one.
LINK 2 - This is the same as v2/v5 from the two links above.
LINK 3 - Same as before.
LINK 4 - Same as before.

So unless the Pub. Promo link isn't to v5, as far as I am getting they are the same. Can you send me your v5 if, indeed, it isn't what I am listening to in the Pub. Promo link above?

P.S. Yes, Haunted v4 is what people were calling the Radio Edit, but only when grouped with v2 (which was called the "non-radio edit").

This is best seen here: LINK - WayBack Machine. This is where I got v4 from in the first place. This is the only place that I have seen v2 called the non-radio edit.

Notice how this also mistakenly has v2 labeled as v1 (Haunted [Non-Radio Edit])); the Post-Origin Demo label given to BOTH Imaginary demos (neat!); Lies is called "Remixed" (ugh); Forever You is included as a demo; TOM and BMTL v1 & v2 are incorrectly switched (notice labels); and here is where the Pre-Masters originated from as well.

Now then, when v1 is correctly labeled and v4 is missing, then v2 was referred to as the Radio Edit. Here v1 was NOT referred to as anything, but v2 was called the Radio Edit for whatever reason. This is why it took us FOREVER to figure out there was another version - people would just label TWO Haunted (1 would be the RE and one would not be) and here we thought for the longest time "oh it must be v1 & v2." No other discography that I have in my notes ever labeled anything the non-radio edit; there was always v1 and the "Radio Edit" which was v2. For some reason, this one had another title which is what made me investigate in the first place the two they had (and the durations didn't match, so I had to check that out). v3 was lost for a while on BMTL Forums, until EvReference found it (somehow) sometime later. So once I actually downloaded v4 (because I always forgot what the Radio Edit really was and was wondering what is a Non-Radio Edit ) and listened to it, I was like AGHH the ending is different back on FMB v1. Soo, yeah that's that.

Amusingly, on YouTube, the only "Radio Edits" that are available are Haunted v1. As far as I know/my notes show, v1 was never called the Radio Edit on Discographies, that's something YouTubers are doing for random stupid reasons.

Overall, that label should be retired since it is stupid and not useful for determining anything.

LOL looking at that list, if we do end up agreeing about Haunted v5, by the look on that tracklisting (3:23) it seems v5 was there all along too. Haha! But yeah, we just have to agree on the differences first.

P.P.S. Whoever compiled this is really cool - it's like a Fallen but of the (main?) demos. I don't per-se agree that v1 of BMTL should be used instead of v2 (or any of the v1 demos for that matter, but whatever), but I get this person made some stylistic choices. LOL at the Final Edit of BNM being used instead of the trip-hop-ness that was the demo! xD.

Tracklist:

Going Under
BMTL v1
EF v1
MI Mystary
Haunted v2
Tourniquet v2
Imaginary v1
TOM v2
Hello
MLB
Whisper
FA
BNM (Final Edit)
Missing

www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLGE10rHgas

I like listening to playlists while doing things, so I think this is a neat change from the usual Fallen we listen to. It's different from the NFYE Bootleg I posted on the first page, since this follows the pattern of Fallen - I think I'm going to add it so people can listen to it if they want to.

[AeternusAmatorius]

Jun 30, 2013 23:45:43 GMT -5 DarkFlare89 said:

Before I begin, for your timeline I'd move v4 after v3 because remember that v4 has v1's lyrics, which are older than v2.

I must not be listening to the right demo. Okay, so I should be primarily paying attention to the end, right?

v5 is on the Pub. Promo right? So that should be this: (LINK) song right? And I should compare this to (LINK) this song right?

See I get that one is 10 seconds shorter (or so) than the other, but I mean, the song itself ends at 3:23 anyways for v2, so 10 extra seconds is just there for no reason. I'm listening to both endings and they don't seem different to me. Am I listening to the correct songs or am I like listening to two of the same demo by mistake?

Okay so in v2 (per link) Amy begins ad-libbing at 3:08 and the fifth BOOM BOOM thing stops at 3:23. In v5 (per link) the same thing happens. So I'm not getting something here. Do I have the right songs or am I like, listening to two v2 or something?

Let me see a few links:

LINK 1 - This one is cut at the end, so I can't compare with this one.
LINK 2 - This is the same as v2/v5 from the two links above.
LINK 3 - Same as before.
LINK 4 - Same as before.

So unless the Pub. Promo link isn't to v5, as far as I am getting they are the same. Can you send me your v5 if, indeed, it isn't what I am listening to in the Pub. Promo link above?

P.S. Yes, Haunted v4 is what people were calling the Radio Edit, but only when grouped with v2 (which was called the "non-radio edit").

This is best seen here: LINK - WayBack Machine. This is where I got v4 from in the first place. This is the only place that I have seen v2 called the non-radio edit.

Notice how this also mistakenly has v2 labeled as v1 (Haunted [Non-Radio Edit])); the Post-Origin Demo label given to BOTH Imaginary demos (neat!); Lies is called "Remixed" (ugh); Forever You is included as a demo; TOM and BMTL v1 & v2 are incorrectly switched (notice labels); and here is where the Pre-Masters originated from as well.

Now then, when v1 is correctly labeled and v4 is missing, then v2 was referred to as the Radio Edit. Here v1 was NOT referred to as anything, but v2 was called the Radio Edit for whatever reason. This is why it took us FOREVER to figure out there was another version - people would just label TWO Haunted (1 would be the RE and one would not be) and here we thought for the longest time "oh it must be v1 & v2." No other discography that I have in my notes ever labeled anything the non-radio edit; there was always v1 and the "Radio Edit" which was v2. For some reason, this one had another title which is what made me investigate in the first place the two they had (and the durations didn't match, so I had to check that out). v3 was lost for a while on BMTL Forums, until EvReference found it (somehow) sometime later. So once I actually downloaded v4 (because I always forgot what the Radio Edit really was and was wondering what is a Non-Radio Edit ) and listened to it, I was like AGHH the ending is different back on FMB v1. Soo, yeah that's that.

Amusingly, on YouTube, the only "Radio Edits" that are available are Haunted v1. As far as I know/my notes show, v1 was never called the Radio Edit on Discographies, that's something YouTubers are doing for random stupid reasons.

Overall, that label should be retired since it is stupid and not useful for determining anything.

LOL looking at that list, if we do end up agreeing about Haunted v5, by the look on that tracklisting (3:23) it seems v5 was there all along too. Haha! But yeah, we just have to agree on the differences first.

P.P.S. Whoever compiled this is really cool - it's like a Fallen but of the (main?) demos. I don't per-se agree that v1 of BMTL should be used instead of v2 (or any of the v1 demos for that matter, but whatever), but I get this person made some stylistic choices. LOL at the Final Edit of BNM being used instead of the trip-hop-ness that was the demo! xD.

Tracklist:

Going Under
BMTL v1
EF v1
MI Mystary
Haunted v2
Tourniquet v2
Imaginary v1
TOM v2
Hello
MLB
Whisper
FA
BNM (Final Edit)
Missing

www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLGE10rHgas

I like listening to playlists while doing things, so I think this is a neat change from the usual Fallen we listen to. It's different from the NFYE Bootleg I posted on the first page, since this follows the pattern of Fallen - I think I'm going to add it so people can listen to it if they want to.

Yes, but V4 has V1 lyrics with V2 ending. 

Those two links were both V2 since I only heard the low "ah ah" ad lib for not even a second. 

Here are my versions of Haunted that I did the differentiating with:

V1

V2

V3

V4

V5


V3 is fan made based off of the description of how the original demo 3 was supposed to be. I'm not sure where this description came from of V3 but apparently it came from a reliable source for a fan to make it, at least this is how I remember it went down. I got my V3 from EvBoard when it surfaced on there.

[DarkFlare89]

Jul 1, 2013 0:03:20 GMT -5 AeternusAmatorius said:

Yes, but V4 has V1 lyrics with V2 ending. 

Those two links were both V2 since I only heard the low "ah ah" ad lib for not even a second. 

Here are my versions of Haunted that I did the differentiating with:

V1

V2

V3

V4

V5


V3 is fan made based off of the description of how the original demo 3 was supposed to be. I'm not sure where this description came from of V3 but apparently it came from a reliable source for a fan to make it, at least this is how I remember it went down. I got my V3 from EvBoard when it surfaced on there.

The v3 you uploaded was the one EvenInDeath46 made on FOI when we were speculating what Haunted v3 sounded like. I asked him to make it based off of EvReference's description of it (below). We knew it was around, especially since it used to be downloadable on BMTL Forums, but for some reason it wasn't shared until Dec of 2007, which is LOL after we found Haunted v4 (we found that Feb of 2007).

Haunted [demo version #3]

Recording date: 2001
Status: Unreleased
Note: this track is Haunted (demo version #1) and Origin from the album Origin merged together.

How come you still have that one and not the real one (or do you have the real one too)?

Download Me :.D << From FallenEvArmy.

We can tell which one was fan-made one and which one was the real one because the real one has Origin flow into Haunted v1, thus making v3. In FOI, we were all speculating that it was just Origin + Haunted v1. Compare the real one to the one you uploaded and you see the transitions are different.

Okay, let me listen to v5 now *listening*

Hmmm, I'm still not hearing it. Still five booms, still same vocalization beginning at 3:07/08 that lasts until the end. Um, what I do hear for some reason is the music is quieter than Amy's vocals until you get the guitars. THEY for some reason are louder. They aren't different, they are just louder. Something is different in this song, but it isn't the music though, it is how it's mixed. It's like someone lowered the regular music, kept Amy's vocals the same, and raised the volume of the guitars - which is levels of WTF . . . yeah, what is going on with the guitars here? Like compare the guitar solo in both songs - in v2 the music is all level with each other, the drums/bass/guitar solo/choir. But in v5 why are the guitars all super prominent. And the drums sound weird too, it's like they added some sort of reverb to them or something. Did this come from a bootleg? Is that what went on here? Did they pull a "rough mix" on us? I don't think this is a different demo, I think this is a Frankenstein version of v2 that the bootleggers tampered with. But I don't know what bootleg this might have come from. This can't be the one on the Promo, I just listened to one I downloaded and that's not the one on there (downloaded from HERE!)

Also, for v4 - why would they make a demo with v1's vocals after changing them in v2? Right, your list is trying to match them in order from first created to last created? Don't you think it makes more sense that they went from v1 - v3 - v4 - v2? So the ending (with Amy's vocalization added at the end) changed first and then Amy's actual lyrics changed for v2? Or no? I mean, the ending is easier I imagine to change than an entire part of the song. Unless they did it concurrently, you know? Like they recorded v1 & v2 at the same time and then tinkered with what worked and what didn't for v3 & v4. Or maybe they went back and forth between v1's lyrics and v2's? Maybe they did do it the way you think and just changed it back again. It's just strange that v2 would be on NFYE and Fallen Promo if it wasn't the last one created.

[AeternusAmatorius]

Jul 1, 2013 0:32:47 GMT -5 DarkFlare89 said:

Jul 1, 2013 0:03:20 GMT -5 AeternusAmatorius said:

Yes, but V4 has V1 lyrics with V2 ending. 

Those two links were both V2 since I only heard the low "ah ah" ad lib for not even a second. 

Here are my versions of Haunted that I did the differentiating with:

V1

V2

V3

V4

V5


V3 is fan made based off of the description of how the original demo 3 was supposed to be. I'm not sure where this description came from of V3 but apparently it came from a reliable source for a fan to make it, at least this is how I remember it went down. I got my V3 from EvBoard when it surfaced on there.

The v3 you uploaded was the one EvenInDeath46 made on FOI when we were speculating what Haunted v3 sounded like. I asked him to make it based off of EvReference's description of it (below). We knew it was around, especially since it used to be downloadable on BMTL Forums, but for some reason it wasn't shared until Dec of 2007, which is LOL after we found Haunted v4 (we found that Feb of 2007).

Haunted [demo version #3]

Recording date: 2001
Status: Unreleased
Note: this track is Haunted (demo version #1) and Origin from the album Origin merged together.

How come you still have that one and not the real one (or do you have the real one too)?

Download Me :.D << From FallenEvArmy.

We can tell which one was fan-made one and which one was the real one because the real one has Origin flow into Haunted v1, thus making v3. In FOI, we were all speculating that it was just Origin + Haunted v1. Compare the real one to the one you uploaded and you see the transitions are different.

Okay, let me listen to v5 now *listening*

Hmmm, I'm still not hearing it. Still five booms, still same vocalization beginning at 3:07/08 that lasts until the end. Um, what I do hear for some reason is the music is quieter than Amy's vocals until you get the guitars. THEY for some reason are louder. They aren't different, they are just louder. Something is different in this song, but it isn't the music though, it is how it's mixed. It's like someone lowered the regular music, kept Amy's vocals the same, and raised the volume of the guitars - which is levels of WTF . . . yeah, what is going on with the guitars here? Like compare the guitar solo in both songs - in v2 the music is all level with each other, the drums/bass/guitar solo/choir. But in v5 why are the guitars all super prominent. And the drums sound weird too, it's like they added some sort of reverb to them or something. Did this come from a bootleg? Is that what went on here? Did they pull a "rough mix" on us? I don't think this is a different demo, I think this is a Frankenstein version of v2 that the bootleggers tampered with. But I don't know what bootleg this might have come from. This can't be the one on the Promo, I just listened to one I downloaded and that's not the one on there (downloaded from HERE!)

Also, for v4 - why would they make a demo with v1's vocals after changing them in v2? Right, your list is trying to match them in order from first created to last created? Don't you think it makes more sense that they went from v1 - v3 - v4 - v2? So the ending (with Amy's vocalization added at the end) changed first and then Amy's actual lyrics changed for v2? Or no? I mean, the ending is easier I imagine to change than an entire part of the song. Unless they did it concurrently, you know? Like they recorded v1 & v2 at the same time and then tinkered with what worked and what didn't for v3 & v4. Or maybe they went back and forth between v1's lyrics and v2's? Maybe they did do it the way you think and just changed it back again. It's just strange that v2 would be on NFYE and Fallen Promo if it wasn't the last one created.

I didn't know there was a real version of Demo V3 out there. How do we know this one is the official V3? 

On V5 there is a lower vocal ad lib that's present on V5 but it's very short on V2. It's still there on both of them but one is just shorter than the other. Idk. Maybe I have like a cut off version of V2 or something. I got the demo from the place where everyone downloaded them when they first surfaced. Then I redownloaded them from EvRef just to make sure I wasn't missing any from the transferring from computer to computer to computer. I deleted all the ones I downloaded from EvRef though so I'm not sure where the confusion lies... Ugh... The one on the Pub Promo that I have with the longer part of the lower ad lib is my V5... On my V2 the lower "ah" starts at 3:21.1 and ends right at 3:22.4 (using GoldWave), V5 3:20.3 and ends at 3:23.2 (again using GoldWave) Pub Promo version 3:20.9 and ends at 3:23.1 (GodlWave). In my V5 and Pub Promo it was more prominent than it was in my v2. I had to listen to the end of v2 a couple times in order to even hear the low "ah".

Here. Let me cut the endings from my versions and upload them. 

Pub Promo End

V2 End

V5 End

[DarkFlare89]

Jul 1, 2013 23:17:12 GMT -5 AeternusAmatorius said:

I didn't know there was a real version of Demo V3 out there. How do we know this one is the official V3?

I'm going to come back to listen to the songs, because right now I am behind in writing my lesson plan for tomorrow (eek!).

But for Haunted v3, we got it off of EvRef which is where the quote came from in the first place. For a few years the footnotes didn't work, so when they fixed them they finally linked to the song, which is where we got it.

I imagine it is authentic because . . . err, the way it is sounds? That echo after "form" which flows into the song Haunted? I mean, it is totally not what we thought it was when we made our version on FOI (the hard break in between the ending of Origin and Haunted, since we literally thought it was just Origin + Haunted and just left it at that). So I can see what the quote means by "merged," but its something no one really would have imagined the song would have sounded like, until they heard it.

Jul 1, 2013 23:17:12 GMT -5 AeternusAmatorius said:

I got the demo from the place where everyone downloaded them when they first surfaced.

The Yahoo Groups back in 2002/2003? Or from Kazaa in 2003? Is that why you have it in .wav format?

[AeternusAmatorius]

Both actually. I have some in .wav format and some in .mp3/.wma format. When I downloaded them they were in multiple formats and in various quality. After I downloaded the folder with all the demos in the .zip file this (below as well, though I cropped it) is how it extracted and I've kept it like that ever since. It's even like that in my EvMusic Flash Drive (where I backed up my EvMusic files) from my very first computer (where I downloaded the zipped file). Excuse the "Date Modified" label. That's when I added the demos to my laptop. lol. 

[AeternusAmatorius]

Oct 16, 2012 12:56:38 GMT -5 DarkFlare89 said:

-*Certain* demos are labeled specifically as 2002 Demos. Usually Whisper gets called Whisper 2002; the demos on Not For Your Ears bootleg were called the 2002 Demos on older discographies. This practice has largely stopped because it made no sense. People were looking foolish because they would list EID, FM, and You as 2002 Demos, when clearly that is not the case. What proof, by the way, do we have that Whisper was made specifically in 2002? I mean, yeah we could PROBABLY say Going Under was made in 2002, since it was the last one and everything, but what do we have for Whisper that it is the ONLY demo I have seen to actually, colloquially be called Whisper 2002? Why not My Last Breath 2002? Or Imaginary 2002? We don't even HAVE a second demo of Whisper, so why call it anything at all? I'd understand if, like there was a Bring Me To Life 2001 and, to differentiate it, the EvCommunity would call the other one Bring Me To Life 2002, but that doesn't happen. So what's up with Whisper? DoubleA, what do you think? Which were 2001 and which were 2002? Do you think the Making of Fallen would help with this? *analyzing*

Wow! totally did not see that. Anyway, hmm. I think we can tell by the style in which the songs were written (lyrically and possibly musically) which ones were more closely written with in the "Origin" era and which one's were more closely written in the post era (around the move to Tennessee). But then again, the "style" theory could just not be reliable/reasonable because that's just a bit far fetched though. So Idk. 

We obviously know that Whisper (musically) was written in late-1998 (exclusion from the '98 EP)/early-1999 (inclusion on the '99 EP). However, Amy could have written the lyrics in '95 or something and was just sitting on it (like she was with the chorus of Lithium-which she wrote at 16 on the acoustic guitar). Heck, maybe Ben wrote the lyrics and Amy helped (like with MI). 

[DarkFlare89]

Feb 17, 2014 22:33:25 GMT -5 AeternusAmatorius said:

We obviously know that Whisper (musically) was written in late-1998 (exclusion from the '98 EP)/early-1999 (inclusion on the '99 EP). However, Amy could have written the lyrics in '95 or something and was just sitting on it (like she was with the chorus of Lithium-which she wrote at 16 on the acoustic guitar). Heck, maybe Ben wrote the lyrics and Amy helped (like with MI). 

Sure, but since Whisper is such an old song, one would assume they would have reworked the song first right? Whisper, Imaginary, My Immortal, Lies - one would assume these would all be "2001" demos, since they wouldn't have to waste time writing them, just reworking them musically. But yet Whisper is called Whisper 2002. So my question is, why do we call it this, if it is more likely it was reworked in 2001? How do we know it is a "2002" and not a "2001" demo? Would we ever be able to tell which demos are 2001 and which are 2002? I mean, it's semantics - it doesn't really matter, and I'm sure they worked on the demos throughout the end of 2001 and early 2002 anyways so they would be blended and not particular to a certain time (i.e. no specific 2001 demos and 2002 demos); this is why I don't use the Whisper 2002 label and instead just say Whisper (Post-Origin Demo), but it is interesting food for thought.

P.S. It still bugs me that there is no 2001-2002 Demo for WWYG. Like, come on, EP and Origin Version but they didn't even consider re-working it? Why was Lies so special that it got a do-over but not the older WWYG? Don't get me wrong, I love Lies but WWYG should have been given some love too.

P.P.S. I think Whisper is more Amy than Ben in terms of lyrics, since Renee said Whisper is a conversation between Amy and God. Or something like that.

[AeternusAmatorius]

Feb 18, 2014 0:45:33 GMT -5 DarkFlare89 said:

Feb 17, 2014 22:33:25 GMT -5 AeternusAmatorius said:

We obviously know that Whisper (musically) was written in late-1998 (exclusion from the '98 EP)/early-1999 (inclusion on the '99 EP). However, Amy could have written the lyrics in '95 or something and was just sitting on it (like she was with the chorus of Lithium-which she wrote at 16 on the acoustic guitar). Heck, maybe Ben wrote the lyrics and Amy helped (like with MI). 

Sure, but since Whisper is such an old song, one would assume they would have reworked the song first right? Whisper, Imaginary, My Immortal, Lies - one would assume these would all be "2001" demos, since they wouldn't have to waste time writing them, just reworking them musically. But yet Whisper is called Whisper 2002. So my question is, why do we call it this, if it is more likely it was reworked in 2001? How do we know it is a "2002" and not a "2001" demo? Would we ever be able to tell which demos are 2001 and which are 2002? I mean, it's semantics - it doesn't really matter, and I'm sure they worked on the demos throughout the end of 2001 and early 2002 anyways so they would be blended and not particular to a certain time (i.e. no specific 2001 demos and 2002 demos); this is why I don't use the Whisper 2002 label and instead just say Whisper (Post-Origin Demo), but it is interesting food for thought.

P.S. It still bugs me that there is no 2001-2002 Demo for WWYG. Like, come on, EP and Origin Version but they didn't even consider re-working it? Why was Lies so special that it got a do-over but not the older WWYG? Don't get me wrong, I love Lies but WWYG should have been given some love too.

P.P.S. I think Whisper is more Amy than Ben in terms of lyrics, since Renee said Whisper is a conversation between Amy and God. Or something like that.

I don't really think we will know which are 2001 or 2002 songs unless we have the ORIGINAL files and look within the properties of those files and find the "Date created" and the "Last saved" date... :/ And if I am assuming correctly, maybe the year markers were around the time the song was found? I almost put 2002 next to the Mystary version of MI (not that it was found in that year, but it was recorded in that year/most likely the best year to put next to it)... Oh! And "Making Of 'Fallen'" was in 2001. In one of the first videos they say "Pre-production, day two." which we already know from the IMX interview that they were in pre-production for two years. From various other interviews, we know they were signed to Wind-Up and were immediately put in pre-production (unless I'm making that up--which I could be because I'm tired and my brain may be creating a false memory-- XD).

If I remember correctly, I think it was David that wanted to re-work Lies. I'm not sure of the reason but I guess they didn't think it was epic enough or too epic or didn't like it or something. Idk... But you know how Amy says that she doesn't cover a song or re-do one unless they/she can make it better? I think that's why they didn't re-do WWYG?. I think the felt it was best the way it was on Origin.

Ooo! I would love to see what you have quoted from Renee if you have it!   And I didn't know that. I've been wanting to know the meaning and inspiration of Whisper for the longest time. It's such a unique song to me that I love so much!